68 replies to this topic

[pyke]

You do know that under international law a country doesn't have to extradite anybody it doesn't want to, right? That's the whole point of sovereignty...

Of course that's never stopped America thinking that it has the right to kidnap foreign citizens before though so I guess we can't be surprised.

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Bastards...

If they're going to commit those crimes and attempt to hide under the security of another nation, they deserve to be tried. Just in their own nation, but it's not like your country would have done anything, correct?

[Waser Lave]

If they're going to commit those crimes and attempt to hide under the security of another nation, they deserve to be tried. Just in their own nation, but it's not like your country would have done anything, correct?

Well we do tend to abide by international law but we wouldn't know what we'd do unless it happened. It's impossible to say. Though we haven't (yet) claimed to be able to kidnap foreign citizens whenever we feel like it.

Makes you wonder why so many people dislike America really.

[pyke]

Well we do tend to abide by international law but we wouldn't know what we'd do unless it happened. It's impossible to say. Though we haven't (yet) claimed to be able to kidnap foreign citizens whenever we feel like it.

Makes you wonder why so many people dislike America really.

Would your country have tried these people?

[Waser Lave]

Would your country have tried these people?

How would I know? Of course they deserve to be tried but you have to rely upon their country of residence to comply with either extradition or a trial in that country. As a liberal democracy we should respect the sovereignty of other countries, not ask them and then invade if they don't agree...

(We seem to be going slightly askew from the topic title )

Edited by Laser Wave, 15 April 2008 - 11:42 AM.

[sonic]

How would I know? Of course they deserve to be tried but you have to rely upon their country of residence to comply with either extradition or a trial in that country. As a liberal democracy we should respect the sovereignty of other countries, not ask them and then invade if they don't agree...

(We seem to be going slightly askew from the topic title )

You guys really have no idea what your talking about.
Afganistan as a country is not hiding terrorists.
It is the separate communities within Afghanistan that is.

We did not invade a civilized and government controlled country.

Hell there are even a few democratic communities in Afghanistan. Many of them are out of bounds to soldiers because they are so well run, that there is no way terrorists would be allowed to hide there. Every civilized country hates terrorists.

Edited by Sonic, 15 April 2008 - 01:52 PM.

[Melchoire]

A response to ya Simon, didn't quote because the page is getting too long . I wasn't saying what European colonialists did was not terrible, it certainly was. I was just saying that large parts of Africa already practiced slavery and that most of those people would probably still be enslaved, irregardless of outside intervention. You can't say that it's only colonialists(imperialists I'm sure you'll prefer), that are the problem.

I'm not entirely sure about the Marxist ideology, but I'm under the impression that all people are of equal stature? In which case, it promotes doing the bare minimum to get along. Who is going to go to school for 10 years (And they've certainly got it right that school should be free) to become a doctor, when they'd live the same as a labor worker? I'm probably off here though, this is where my assumption of apathy is coming from though

I'll have to disagree with Rousseau as well . I think he places to much faith in humanity. I think it's in human nature to dominate other people and even in your kind of society, there would still be people on the top. I'll cite the USSR again. Look how long it took Lenin's state to be mutated into some horrifying mess by Stalin. Generally, the kind of people who get into politics, are the very same who commit similar acts.

And I thought I had agreed that how capitalism is conducted now is wrong and that it does need reform? There needs to be change, in order to distribute wealth to everyone, not just the people on top. It's not a system that is doomed to failure, I think the state really needs to step up and fight for its peoples rights though.


Also, Flash, I think it's not a bad thing for people to hate the US administration, they have it coming. I disagree with hating US citizens though.


And good point Laser . As a note though, the Afghanistan mission is entirely different and did have international support, as well as homeland backing. It's just been a clever ploy that's backfired on the US administration to try and lump the two into one situation.

I love that word.

[sonic]

I don't have anything against Afghanistan. If that wasn't your point then I have no idea what the point of your post was

I have nothing against it either. I just like the way you described the situation.
I gave you kudos, but now Im taking it back.

[Melchoire]

Do we care about international law? Common sense now We're one of the big dogs on the street, we'll do whatever we see fit. The point I was making was we had a logical reason to invade Afghanistan. They had the people that took down two of our most prominent structures in New York, killing thousands in the process, and they refused to give them to us. It only makes sense were going to force them to do it.

It's not something to be taken lightly. America has a long history of interfering with the politics of other countries' and they usually ended with thousands dead.

• 1954: U.S. overthrows democratically-elected President Arbenz of Guatemala. 200,000 civilians killed.
• September 11, 1973: U.S. stages coup in Chile. Democratically-elected President Salvador Allende assassinated. Dictator Augusto Pinochet installed. 5,000 Chileans murdered.
• 1977: U.S. backs military rulers of El Salvador. 70,000 Salvadorans and four American nuns killed.
• 1981: Reagan administration trains and funds "contras." 30,000 Nicaraguans die.
• 1980s: U.S. trains Osama bin Laden and fellow terrorists to kill Soviets. CIA gives them $3 billion.

There's a shit load more, but I think I made my point.

Edited by FlashGM, 15 April 2008 - 05:10 PM.

[sonic]

It's not something to be taken lightly. America has a long history of interfering with the politics of other countries' and they usually ended with thousands dead.

• 1954: U.S. overthrows democratically-elected President Arbenz of Guatemala. 200,000 civilians killed.
• September 11, 1973: U.S. stages coup in Chile. Democratically-elected President Salvador Allende assassinated. Dictator Augusto Pinochet installed. 5,000 Chileans murdered.
• 1977: U.S. backs military rulers of El Salvador. 70,000 Salvadorans and four American nuns killed.
• 1981: Reagan administration trains and funds "contras." 30,000 Nicaraguans die.
• 1980s: U.S. trains Osama bin Laden and fellow terrorists to kill Soviets. CIA gives them $3 billion.

There's a shit load more, but I think I made my point.

I was not aware that no other country has EVER interfered in other countries policies.
Hell especially Britain. They don't have a long history of meddling in other countries buisness.
/end sarcasm

Honestly now. Don't talk about thousands dead, Vietnam was legitimately disgusting, but do I even need to point out all the death caused by Japan, USSR, Germany, and most of all Britain.

America may dominate the world and its business now, but that does not erase history. There has been far more destruction caused by other countries. At least America pretends to have the right intentions.

[Melchoire]

I didn't say it should be taken lightly I'm just pointing out the fact that it's common sense the U.S has abused it's power multiple times over history and has no problem doing it today (by invading Afghanistan).

My bad, I guess I just picked that up from the general tone of your post or something =P

I was not aware that no other country has EVER interfered in other countries policies.
Hell especially Britain. They don't have a long history of meddling in other countries buisness.
/end sarcasm

Honestly now. Don't talk about thousands dead, Vietnam was legitimately disgusting, but do I even need to point out all the death caused by Japan, USSR, Germany, and most of all Britain.

America may dominate the world and its business now, but that does not erase history. There has been far more destruction caused by other countries. At least America pretends to have the right intentions.

The thread title has "Britain" and "America" in it so I thought that's what we were discussing.

Edited by FlashGM, 15 April 2008 - 06:07 PM.

[sonic]

My bad, I guess I just picked that up from the general tone of your post or something =P


The thread title has "Britain" and "America" in it so I thought that's what we were discussing.

So ignore my points just because they reference other countries?

[Melchoire]

So ignore my points just because they reference other countries?

Ok have it your way. Why don't I go and compile a list of every fucking civilization and empire that's ever meddled in the affairs of other states. Good idea! Wanna discuss those ones too?

[sonic]

Ok have it your way. Why don't I go and compile a list of every fucking civilization and empire that's ever meddled in the affairs of other states. Good idea! Wanna discuss those ones too?

Good idea.
The time it would take would allow for less time to make yourself look stupid on the boards.

[Frizzle]

Good idea.
The time it would take would allow for less time to make yourself look stupid on the boards.

Touche dear sir.

[Ives]

Didn't Piers Morgan win some game show recently where he made a bunch a dough for some wounded heroes fund?

I don't know much about the UK (aside from not liking it), but in America "supporting the troops" is a watered down concept so you dont come off as politically incorrect. The most people do is put up bumper stickers on their minivan. Respect towards fallen heroes is pretty dull other than a few days out of the year the government drafted so you don't feel guilty every years. I don't like soldiers dying in vain, don't get me wrong, but I don't think trying to stop the war in iraq is supporting the troops so much as it is trying to fix a big mistake.

American interventionism: to summarize, it's just a cheap knockoff of intervention from European countries in the past. In fact, it dwells in comparison to the uncle empire where the sun never sets. Not to say we should have gone into Iraq or Afghanistan, but we've got a pretty good record. It's fun to think America sucks but so far it's doing OK for 300 million people. I seriously thought about relocating to Holland or Canada, but both countries have pretty lame immigration laws, especially when it comes to acquiring work permits and getting a job.

[Kristoffer]

True, People who fight for their motherland should be threated as HEROES! : )



For Mother Russia

[iNextGenWarrior]

True, People who fight for their motherland should be threated as HEROES! : )



For Mother Russia

Well that's what Abe Lincoln did but people hate him...=/

[Bryn AKA Interhacker]

Cant believe this board is still going
Way to touchie for me, i dont fancy getting banned

[Sweeney]

It's not still going.