89 replies to this topic

[Dan]

That's only partially true. Studies have shown that a programmer will produce the same number of lines per programming session regardless of the language they use. Therefore, if you want to get a lot of programming done, it's best to use a language with an efficient grammar than an unnecessarily verbose language.

And since when has programming skill been measured on number of lines?

Although, I do agree - I partially retract my previous statement. A pseudo-code-based language will obviously be easier to understand and get your head around than an extremely low-level language such as C++.

Edited by Hydrogen, 30 July 2009 - 12:57 PM.

[jcrdude]

I'll apply when I'm actually done going through the tutorials I was already handed

I'll be decent before I waste anyone's time

[Rambo]

Hmm, I am thinking I should get my foot wedged in the door, so to speak.

<sub>Why did I bother?

It's obvious I am not 'clever' enough. =[</sub>

[Cyo]

Hmm, I am thinking I should get my foot wedged in the door, so to speak.

<sub>Why did I bother?

It's obvious I am not 'clever' enough. =[</sub>

You're gay you can't be a programmer.

[Rambo]

Bye!

[iargue]

Didnt Rambo do some programing before? I remember reading posts from him in the programming section. Though at that point it also said he was banned.

And since when has programming skill been measured on number of lines?

The less lines you have, the smaller your code, and normally the faster (Less to process). For instance, I did my code in 31 lines, and ShadowLink did it in, 12.

And, in 15 lines he made his program twice as good as mine. He is a much better programmer

[Dan]

The less lines you have, the smaller your code, and normally the faster (Less to process). For instance, I did my code in 31 lines, and ShadowLink did it in, 12.
And, in 15 lines he made his program twice as good as mine. He is a much better programmer

Less lines you have --> Smaller your code, yes.
Faster for less lines --> Yes.
And yeah, he probably is a much better programmer, but it's not always about how small, or short your code is.

You'll find that what takes you 1500 lines in Python, 2000 in C#, and 4000 in VB is all compiled to the same amount of machine code.

[Hydrogen]

You'll find that what takes you 1500 lines in Python, 2000 in C#, and 4000 in VB is all compiled to the same amount of machine code.

That's not exactly true. Each line maps to a certain amount of machine code. Therefore the more lines of code you have, the more machine code you have.

Even if that were true, it just proves that Python is more concise and has a more efficient programmer .

[Cyo]

Didnt Rambo do some programing before? I remember reading posts from him in the programming section. Though at that point it also said he was banned.



The less lines you have, the smaller your code, and normally the faster (Less to process). For instance, I did my code in 31 lines, and ShadowLink did it in, 12.

And, in 15 lines he made his program twice as good as mine. He is a much better programmer

Thats not always true.

For example:
Your code is:

Eat
Shit
Sleep

SL's code:

Eat & Shit
Sleep

Sure he might have less lines but in the end it does the same amount of actions.

Just saying.

[GamerAsh]

I know a little PHP, like I know how to make a registration and log-in system. However, even that wasn't great.

I know a little bit of Java too. OOP rules. I'd like to learn some Python I'll look into this.

[iargue]

Thats not always true.

For example:
Your code is:

Eat
Shit
Sleep

SL's code:

Eat & Shit
Sleep

Sure he might have less lines but in the end it does the same amount of actions.

Just saying.

Your looking at the ideal wrong. Because Eat, Shit, and Sleep would have to be functions, and I would take twice as many lines of coding in order to
complete that task

[Dan]

That's not exactly true. Each line maps to a certain amount of machine code. Therefore the more lines of code you have, the more machine code you have.

Even if that were true, it just proves that Python is more concise and has a more efficient programmer .

No, I know for a fact that's the way it works in .NET at least.

i.e.

If myBool = True Then
     Execute_MyCode()
Else
     Execute_MyOtherCode()
End If

equates to the same amount of machine code as

if(mybool == true)
{
execute_mycode();
}
else
{
execute_myothercode();
}

which i'm sure equates to the same amount as

if mybool == true:
     executemycode
else:
     executemyothercode

in python.

In .NET - this is how code gets converted down from C# to MSIL/CIL (as it's now called ) and eventually machine code.


This proves my point - what took you 5 lines in VB, 8 lines in C# and 4 lines in Python, all do the same thing, and all equate to the same amount of machine code.

[Hydrogen]

The reason thats how it works in .NET is because there is a Common Intermediate Language. It may be true for .NET languages, but is not for any other language that is not part of the .NET family. Python may have more instructions machine instructions or it may have less (I'm not sure) but it won't be the same as .NET languages .

[Dan]

The reason thats how it works in .NET is because there is a Common Intermediate Language. It may be true for .NET languages, but is not for any other language that is not part of the .NET family. Python may have more instructions machine instructions or it may have less (I'm not sure) but it won't be the same as .NET languages .

Yeah - which entirely proves my point.

By having more or less lines in any language, that makes absolutely no difference on the speed or reliability, or any other factor.

I could create a function that does X in 1500 lines of code and re-write it in 600 to do the same thing (I actually did this the other day with someone else's code ) and it will physically still be relatively the same machine-code that is executed at runtime.

[Hydrogen]

Yeah - which entirely proves my point.

By having more or less lines in any language, that makes absolutely no difference on the speed or reliability, or any other factor.

I could create a function that does X in 1500 lines of code and re-write it in 600 to do the same thing (I actually did this the other day with someone else's code ) and it will physically still be relatively the same machine-code that is executed at runtime.

Actually, in high level languages, each line of code maps to some amount of machine code. Therefore, if you were re-writing 1500 lines of code to be 600 lines of code, you would see much less machine code. Furthermore, while the number of lines may not affect reliability (to some degree - more lines means more chances for error), the amount of machine code directly impacts the speed of the program. Suppose you had 10 billion instructions at the machine level. This would take you about 5 seconds to process on a 2 GHz processor. Whereas, if you had only 1 billion instructions at the machine level, it would take you half a second to process on the same processor.

[Dan]

Actually, in high level languages, each line of code maps to some amount of machine code. Therefore, if you were re-writing 1500 lines of code to be 600 lines of code, you would see much less machine code. Furthermore, while the number of lines may not affect reliability (to some degree - more lines means more chances for error), the amount of machine code directly impacts the speed of the program. Suppose you had 10 billion instructions at the machine level. This would take you about 5 seconds to process on a 2 GHz processor. Whereas, if you had only 1 billion instructions at the machine level, it would take you half a second to process on the same processor.

Yeah - but to revert to the original point:

Number of lines of code in an application != Stability, Reliability, Speed

Number of lines .. can = Number of features within an app

Don't want to go too offtopic, us advanced programmers (shall we say) can discuss this in our own time

[iargue]

No, I know for a fact that's the way it works in .NET at least.

i.e.

If myBool = True Then
     Execute_MyCode()
Else
     Execute_MyOtherCode()
End If

equates to the same amount of machine code as


which i'm sure equates to the same amount as

if mybool == true:
     executemycode
else:
     executemyothercode

in python.

In .NET - this is how code gets converted down from C# to MSIL/CIL (as it's now called ) and eventually machine code.


This proves my point - what took you 5 lines in VB, 8 lines in C# and 4 lines in Python, all do the same thing, and all equate to the same amount of machine code.

Its not about doing the same thing, its HOW you do it. Because he is a better programmer then me, he can skip the needless array's and the other pointless things that I use to do what I do. Therefor he can wright it in only 600 lines because he doesn't have 10 useless variables, and 5 extra calls to the webpage that I have. This makes his program much faster and efficient. Now, if you where to write the SAME EXACT function in a different language, yes it would be just as efficent, but we are argueing in amount of lines points to better programming skill. In which case, less is generally better.

[loopyco]

Once i get a bit more spare time, i'll get to learning python. It would be great to learn another language and have experts on hand for advice. Plus i would love to input into the community.

[Riverdrive]

Can I make a program, and then send it to one of the programmers so they can use the neocodex libraries for putting that neocodex thing and cookie grabber (so the user don't need to put the login and pass @_@) e etc, without being a junior programmer? So they can release it here (saying I made almost all of it, lol).

Or you people can release the libraries you use, closed source, if possible, and then I send here.

Obs: Probably I will not make anything. But if I make, I don't want it to be wasted with only me using it. I want to make a daily doer.

And I have no idea how you can access the internet with a programming languagem .___.! I hope there is something like that on the tutorials xD! And thanks for the tutorials.

And sorry for the poor english.

Obs2: WTF? I don't remeber using an avatar... but hey, this my default avatar everywhere... scary...

Edited by Riverdrive, 16 October 2009 - 08:22 AM.

[iargue]

If you make a programin in Python and release the source to us. Yes, we can make it a neocodex program. It would be easier just to program with us though. You will learn faster.


As for connecting to a website, you will need an Http Wrapper.

[LittleOne]

i'd love to learn how to programm but find the tutorials hard to follow

[iargue]

i'd love to learn how to programm but find the tutorials hard to follow

Secret: I didnt read the tutorials.

Learned it all by hand. XD

[LittleOne]

Secret: I didnt read the tutorials.

Learned it all by hand. XD

that how i usually learn but cant seem to take the first steps!!!!


ps i'll keep ur sercret lol

[Hydrogen]

Secret: I didnt read the tutorials.

Learned it all by hand. XD

Sneaky . You should read those tutorials though to understand the small nuances that come up with programming. It will make your style better also. They are just a good read and probably will only take you a day or less.

[Riverdrive]

Wow, fast reply.

I would love to program with neocodex, but I just don't have much time, I'm not a really good programmer (I don't even know what is and http wrapper .__., and I don't know python... yet ) and I don't want to waste a junior position (out of the 2) if I pass the test and don't feel encouraged to make a program.

Oh, and thanks for the tip abot the http wrapper.

Sorry for the poor english, again. I think I will put it as my signature.