56 replies to this topic

[Sinwin]

LOL. In the end, I have to apologize sigh. Always have to agree. I realize men cannot win in an argument against women. Laws do favor women more, but women get lower pays. Society's views are just too fucked up...

[iargue]

LOL. In the end, I have to apologize sigh. Always have to agree. I realize men cannot win in an argument against women. Laws do favor women more, but women get lower pays. Society's views are just too fucked up...

Not really, alot of women will get higher pay for doing less.

Pay is mostly (90%) of the time based on the work you do, and since women usually (not always) are capable of, or choose to do, less work then men, they get paid less.

What I hate are feminist who expect equal rights, but want special circumstances. Like a seperate bathroom, no cussing, certain work conditions. Those kinds of things.

If they want to be equal to use, the have to deal with the same shit we do. I can give them birth leave, but thats it.

[Sinwin]

Not really, alot of women will get higher pay for doing less.

Pay is mostly (90%) of the time based on the work you do, and since women usually (not always) are capable of, or choose to do, less work then men, they get paid less.

What I hate are feminist who expect equal rights, but want special circumstances. Like a seperate bathroom, no cussing, certain work conditions. Those kinds of things.

If they want to be equal to use, the have to deal with the same shit we do. I can give them birth leave, but thats it.

Ya... Now I think of it. Why can't men have long hair?

[jcrdude]

Ya... Now I think of it. Why can't men have long hair?

You can.... join a band or become a hippie

[Georgina]

Jcr has long hair AND moobs! hes like getting the best of both worlds....lol

[Noitidart]

Law doesn't favor women. Come on men we're the ones with the brain. You just have to use it. No one's going to help you. And that's how a man should be. Independent. When it comes to law and the man pussies out by depending on someone else.. that's when he loses.

[swerving2win]

You guys obviously have been with the girls. You gotta find the one that doesn't overreact or take the time to communicate instead of blame you.
But the big secret is you have to not be a testosterone enraged douchebag to receive any attention from the ones who are worth while.

[Winnie777]

Jcr has long hair AND moobs! hes like getting the best of both worlds....lol

I love the way his greyish purply hair flows when he does the Going Bananas Dance...I think I'm in love

Quagmire demonstrating the Going Bananas Dance:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTLjR5UjzVY"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=qTLjR5UjzVY[/url]

Peel the banana, peel the banana...

[jarviscocker]

Not really, alot of women will get higher pay for doing less.

Pay is mostly (90%) of the time based on the work you do, and since women usually (not always) are capable of, or choose to do, less work then men, they get paid less.

What I hate are feminist who expect equal rights, but want special circumstances. Like a seperate bathroom, no cussing, certain work conditions. Those kinds of things.

If they want to be equal to use, the have to deal with the same shit we do. I can give them birth leave, but thats it.

lol what.

i don't see how it's unreasonable to want a woman's toilet where you work, i'm fairly sure that's pretty common place anyway unless you're working in some shit small business with one tiny bathroom back in the storage area that's single occupant only anyway. and no cussing, uhm, pretty sure that's not a woman exclusive demand. very religious or conservative males could request that as well for the workplace, or it could just be a company policy someone suggests if you're working in some kind of job that deals with the public. none of the things you listed are outrageous demands or special circumstances really, and if a dude asked for them, you wouldn't think twice about it.

in fact, if any of this were still actually true, i'm pretty sure feminism wouldn't still exist. and if you can't see your own blatant sexism, then i feel sorry for you and any of the women in your life.

[swerving2win]

lawl wut. I didn't get it either. Having a separate bathroom sounds reasonable and I know in certain departments cursing is less accepted than others. For example if you are HR you aren't going to be hearing a lot of foul language. Women have had to deal with a lot more discrimination then males...

[SillyInsaneLittleGirl]

You guys obviously have been with the girls. You gotta find the one that doesn't overreact or take the time to communicate instead of blame you.
But the big secret is you have to not be a testosterone enraged douchebag to receive any attention from the ones who are worth while.

Yes I agree!

I think the problem is that women tend to over-react and men tend to under-react.

[unworthy]

I think you guys are probably with the wrong women if you have those problems. If my gf ever asks who i'm texting I say "your mom" and she will always show me who she is texting. We are a lot more playful and trust each other. If your girlfriend freaks on you if you ask her who she is texting then she knows she is being bad or you are just a complete pussy. If she didn't have anything to hide she would show you but if your constantly asking her it shows ur insecure and you will drive her away.

If any girl ever freaked on me for texting someone, unless I was married and texting another woman, I'd tell her to fuck off and just leave. This applies to more then just texting. If your with a psycho insecure B*tch find someone with some self esteem and who takes less meds.

If men didn't put up with women's shit there wouldn't be female rights activists. The only reason they exist now is because society lets them.

/Edit

Women don't want to be equals to men. Only man hating Dykes and unfulfilled housewives want to be equals. In a normal relationship the man opens the door for his woman, walks on the left side of the sidewalk and leads her through a busy crowd by hand. Women like to be taken care of.

of course i'm talking about normal and mentally healthy women...

Edited by unworthy, 03 December 2009 - 09:49 AM.

[jcrdude]

Took me 6 years to learn that lesson XD

I've been the relationship police for people I care about ever since, and if they're in a shitty relationship helping them get out.

[SillyInsaneLittleGirl]

Women don't want to be equals to men. Only man hating Dykes and unfulfilled housewives want to be equals. In a normal relationship the man opens the door for his woman, walks on the left side of the sidewalk and leads her through a busy crowd by hand. Women like to be taken care of.

of course i'm talking about normal and mentally healthy women...

yeah but women don't like being mistreated either! and i think men like being taken care of too.
I hate over-reactive feminist too but i think saying that women don't want to be equals to men is going on to the other end of the extreme.

[kbbbb]

Not really, alot of women will get higher pay for doing less.

Pay is mostly (90%) of the time based on the work you do, and since women usually (not always) are capable of, or choose to do, less work then men, they get paid less.

Often cos they get stuck looking after the kids and doing the housework. Studies show women still do the majority of it, or at least in Australian households.

What I hate are feminist who expect equal rights, but want special circumstances. Like a seperate bathroom, no cussing, certain work conditions. Those kinds of things.

If they want to be equal to use, the have to deal with the same shit we do. I can give them birth leave, but thats it.

Swearing, whatever. It's when it gets sexist or sexually harassing that it becomes a problem.

The Workforce and its conditions were built with men in mind over three centuries. Women have just been forced into thier moulds. Fortunately, some 21st century employers are giving free childcare and flexible working hours and in those circumstances, women can work equal hours to men. (it has to be said tho that people work differently, some people bludge 25% of the time, others only 5%. Therefore, worker A will have to work longer hours to equal worker B)

Anyway, recent studies show that people are happier when they have more leisure time, and kids do need more time with both parents. It's time employers recognised the benefits of happy families all around.

Oh yeah, and studies also show women get paid less on average than men for doing the same jobs. Women also get the more menial jobs, which get laid off quickly in recession. Their careers are also held back because they lose their spot in the workforce having children. Oh and statistically, women are worse negotiators in contracts so they also get worse packages and get paid less. Women do need to bargain harder. But that shouldn't be a job requirement for equal pay.

I'm not sure what guys get blamed for.

[Mr. Hobo]

Pay is mostly (90%) of the time based on the work you do, and since women usually (not always) are capable of, or choose to do, less work then men, they get paid less.

.........

[jcrdude]

Oh yeah, and studies also show women get paid less on average than men for doing the same jobs. Women also get the more menial jobs, which get laid off quickly in recession. Their careers are also held back because they lose their spot in the workforce having children. Oh and statistically, women are worse negotiators in contracts so they also get worse packages and get paid less. Women do need to bargain harder. But that shouldn't be a job requirement for equal pay.

I'm going to rebut your sweeping generalization with actual study data (gathered by Marianne Bertrand, Claudia Goldin, ad Lawrece Katz) . Forgive if I misspell something in the quote. I'm pulling it from a book, and not the internet.

(They) tried to solve this wage-gap puzzle by analyzing the career outcomes of more than 2,000 male and female MBAs from the University of Chicago.

Their conclusion: while gender discrimination may be a minor contributor to the male-female wage differential, it is desire -- or the lack thereof -- that accounts for most of the wage gap. The economists identified three main factors:

• Women have slightly lower GPAs than men and, perhaps more important, they take fewer finance courses. All else being equal, there is a strong correlation between a finance background and career earnings.
• Over the first fifteen years of their careers, women work fewer hours than men, 52 per week versus 58. Over fifteen years, that six-hour difference adds up to six months' less experience.
• Women take more career interruptions than men. After ten years in the workforce, only 10 percent of male MBAs went for six months or more without working, compared with 40 percent of female MBAs.

The big issue seems to be that many women, even those with MBAs, love kids. The average female MBA with no children only works 3 percent fewer hours than the average male MBA. But female MBAs with children work 24 percent less. "The pecuniary penalties from shorter hours and any job discrimination among MBAs are enormous," the three economists write. "It appears that many MBA mothers, especially those with well-off spouses decided to slow down within a few years following their first birth."

Source: Super Freakonomics pp. 45-46

[kbbbb]

[quote name='jcrboy' date='04 December 2009 - 11:35 AM' timestamp='1259890534' post='1235929']
I'm going to rebut your sweeping generalization with actual study data (gathered by Marianne Bertrand, Claudia Goldin, ad Lawrece Katz) . Forgive if I misspell something in the quote. I'm pulling it from a book, and not the internet.
[/quote]

From an Australian Newspaper quoting international job loss statistics

[quote name="http://www.theage.co....html?page=-1"]
No equal opportunity in job losses
WALEED ALY
January 31, 2009

THE financial crisis has a knack for generating numbers so catastrophically large, they become meaningless. This week, in a single day, 75,000 jobs were lost in the US. That's about 50 newly unemployed people every second. Clearly, the human misery embodied in these dry statistics is widespread. But that doesn't mean it is evenly spread. Indeed, if the latest figures from Britain provide any guide, it isn't.

Those figures show that in the last quarter, full-time job losses have fallen disproportionately on women, who are losing their jobs at twice the rate of men. It's easy enough to explain this asymmetry. Is it not, after all, simply the rationality of the market at work? The market does not recognise us as people with attributes such as gender, but as units of production. Naturally, some units are less productive, and more dispensable than others, and it is nothing more than rational to proceed by shedding them first. If those units happen to be female — with their counterproductive habit of having babies and taking maternity leave — then, in the market's reckoning, that's just too bad. Similarly, if the easiest employees to cull are in less senior areas such as administrative services or customer service — all areas dominated statistically by women — then so be it.

That suggests the discrimination at work here is structural and therefore more stubborn. It reveals how far the workplace was from gender equality in the first place. For all the gains we've made, this remains a realm where, in crude terms, men are essential and women optional.[/quote]

Women's roles in the workforce are lower because the workforce doesn't cater to women, not enough employers have maternity leave, or childcare, or flexible hours.

Women also tend to work more in hospitality and retail because after losing their spot on the ladder (see above) they need a flexible job because they're given responsibility to look after children. Few fathers put their hand up for full-time child rearing. All child-rearing parents however should be given equal opportunity in the workforce however.

[outsidedream86]

Oh and statistically, women are worse negotiators in contracts so they also get worse packages and get paid less. Women do need to bargain harder. But that shouldn't be a job requirement for equal pay.

You're right, men are four times more likely to negotiate for something. The problem is that women who are as assertive as men are often labeled as bitches. (Old saying: there are only three types of women: bitches, whores, and your mom). If they actually try to negotiate they are less likely to get the job at all. That basically leaves the women who don't negotiate and get paid less. I suspect this is a combination of nurture and nature. Women are discouraged from voicing their own needs, instead taught to think of others first. In addition, their brains haven't been wired-up as fetuses by testosterone, which means less aggression. Of course, everyone gets all upset when things like genetic and hormonal differences between the genders come up because apparently equality means everyone is exactly the same

As someone mentioned, the entire institution of work is pretty much designed for men's needs and thought processes so of course women will tend to have a harder time.

I have some great biology books that examine gender differences from a genetic perspective, and sociology books that discuss the research on gender and discrimination in the workplace (for both men and women). If anyone is interested I can post a list when I get home from work later.

[jcrdude]

From an Australian Newspaper quoting international job loss statistics

First off, there are no statistics quoted. It references vague terms that are never clearly defined.

Disproportionate... are we talking
a) A disproportionate percentage of the overall portion of the gender workforce
b) A disproportionate percentage of the overall workforce?

There's nothing there to indicate one way or the other. The article just makes a general statement, mentions a study, then rants....

Women's roles in the workforce are lower because the workforce doesn't cater to women.

That's the point of "equality." If someone has to specifically cater to you so that you can do the job correctly, then that's not equal at all.

Not enough employers have maternity leave, or childcare, or flexible hours.

Ok. I don't know how things are done where you are, but maternity leave is a law in the States.

Why should an employer be sidled with the costs of childcare? If a couple decides to have a child, then it falls upon them to ensure the child is looked after and cared for.

Flexible hours? If a business is open for a set amount of time, why would they change their hours of operation so someone can have flexible hours? Either you're available to fill a position, or you aren't.

Women also tend to work more in hospitality and retail because after losing their spot on the ladder (see above) they need a flexible job because they're given responsibility to look after children. Few fathers put their hand up for full-time child rearing. All child-rearing parents however should be given equal opportunity in the workforce however.

How did women lose their spot on any ladder? Read the article I quoted above. There were reasons that women "lost their place on the ladder." This was not some obscenely biased report. The data was collected and analyzed by a team that was 66% female.

Few fathers may choose to be "stay-at-home Dads," but that is also not up to the employer. That is a discussion and a decision to be made by a couple.

I've known many women who have survived, if not flourished in the modern work force (most doing better than I am). Whether it be putting off having children, telecommuting, finding positions in locations that HAVE a different schedule than their husband (if both have to work). There are numerous options available, but it doesn't always come down to the employer to cater.

It would be sexist of you to believe that just because you are a certain gender you deserve special privileges.

[Elindoril]

I just love how everything can turn into a debate on here.

[jcrdude]

I just love how everything can turn into a debate on here.

At least it's in the right section.

[Ives]

Guys don't get blame for anything except for the radical feminists. haha.

[stellaxstorm]

I guess both guys and girls makes mistake, here in this topic you dont find anyone apologizing and feeling bad for themselves, why is this so? Because we never feel that we had ever done something wrong in this place

[Soulfallen]

Jcr has long hair AND moobs! hes like getting the best of both worlds....lol

I definitely have him beat in the hair department. Shit's past my shoulders. XD

I guess both guys and girls makes mistake, here in this topic you dont find anyone apologizing and feeling bad for themselves, why is this so? Because we never feel that we had ever done something wrong in this place

Can we just blame humanity itself for its rampant stupidity and absurd emotional shenanigans? The truth is both guys and gals are messed up beyond belief, but most of the time in different ways.