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This is why the Christian Right are dangerous


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#26 Sweeney

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 04:41 PM

I got sick of defending people who know nothing about Christianity, and choose to take single sentences and try to use them to dictate that Christianity is bad.

I believe he was actually refuting your point that the messages don't imply intent to inflict the punishment in question, and I believe he did so spectacularly well.

That's debatable. Jesus hardly overthrew the laws of the old covenant. Matthew 5:17-20 states it quite clearly:

Not in the Greek :p
In the Greek, the word here translated to "fulfill" can also mean "perfect".
Far more ambiguous than the KJV would have you believe :p

Either way, all Christians cherrypick from the bible to suit their own, pre-existing, moral compass, so the discussion is academic xD

#27 Mr. Hobo

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 08:31 PM

Either way, all Christians cherrypick from the bible to suit their own, pre-existing, moral compass, so the discussion is academic xD


Ya, Sunscorch said it perfectly. 99.999999999999% of people who identify themselves as Christian aren't really Christian

#28 redlion

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 10:47 PM

The KKK were/are Christian terrorists, although they don't tend to blow themselves up they have definitely blown other people up. Then there's also terrorist groups in Eastern Europe, India and of course Ireland.

You know your badger looks like its taking a shit, right?

#29 kbbbb

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 05:42 PM

They went to Africa and preached against homosexuality to the point where Uganda is going to pass a law making homosexuality a crime punishable by death. This happened AFTER a missionary visit by a well known Christian Right anti gay preacher.
Notice I didn't say ALL Christians. I mean those on the far right , they digust me.

The far right are always out destroying God's world. (pun on Doing Gods Work). From Bush cutting funding to contraceptives to AIDs ridden regions, to the lack of regulation of international adoption. This lack of regulation is because the far right have people making big money out of taking African kids and bringing them to the US under the auspus of 'adoption' because they're 'orphans'. Most kids do actually have family, some father and mother, and the some in government appear to be making a cut out of it by 'selling' their children to people who then take them to CWA- one agency under fire. Eithopia refuses to sign the international adoption treaty (?) and adoption agencies take advantage of it, making processes open-slather. And the far right put pressure on politicians to NOT reform America's systems, because they make money from it (or some of them do) and 'adoption' is highly regarded. Probably quite regularly children are told they're "going on holiday" or "study tour" only to find out they're leaving Ethiopia forever.

Link 1

Link 2

This is a lawyer for CWA, a major adoption agency, who have been accused of the above practices.

JOLLEY:Why didn’t CWA have a program keeping those children within their family?

CURTIS BOSTIC: Does ABC?

JOLLEY: No… because that’s not our job.

CURTIS BOSTIC: Do you? Because it’s not your job? Is it CWA’s job? CWA has it as a job because CWA cares about people. It’s a peer reviewed, accredited, Hague approved 501C3 organisation. Your business has an $850 million budget in 2008. You do nothing to help the starving kids in Ethiopia and yet here we sit while you throw stones at the way a non profit organisation tries to pour out and give to those people. Isn’t there an irony to that?

How ignorant and pigheaded can you get? Oh right, we're talking about the FAR right. Got it.
The lawyer also taped the interview himself and posted it on the internet, because "ABC has misrepresented things that have occurred in Ethiopia and so they’re cautious"

The agency also reported the parents of an adopted child to child welfare, calling them an 'unfit parent' when the parent complained to the consumer affairs organisation in her area.

Oh, and put down that New Testament.

Dang, you got me. Me, only really listening to the New Testament now because of much of the distortion and irrelevance of the the old's take on 'living' (ie Leviticus).

#30 Blowguner

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 06:56 PM

yes, fault the religion.

#31 kbbbb

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 07:18 PM

yes, fault the religion.


Do you mean it is the fault of the religion that there are people using it as an ecuse to committ amoral behaviour, or that the religion had inbuilt bad into it that people follow?

#32 Elindoril

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 07:19 PM

Do you mean it is the fault of the religion that there are people using it as an ecuse to committ amoral behaviour, or that the religion had inbuilt bad into it that people follow?

I'm thinking he doesn't know and/or care, he just wanted a post.

#33 ShadowLink64

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 07:32 PM

Ya, Sunscorch said it perfectly. 99.999999999999% of people who identify themselves as Christian aren't really Christian

There's also a sizable portion that like to say that since atheists don't have a source of absolute morality, they're not accountable to any higher authority and can therefore sin all they want (whereas Christians supposedly can't). What absolute is there about a Bible that has certain "irrelevant" (as kbbb said above) parts to it?

So where then do most "sensible" Christians derive what is right and wrong? I'm inclined to say that they develop their values in the same way atheists do -- from their upbringing, and what is considered right and wrong by the society they live in.

(Hulu doesn't like Canadians viewing their videos so I can't comment on it. <_<)

#34 Blowguner

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 07:42 PM

Nah, Im a x-christian and i beleive, that the bible was like a story like harry potter at that time.
Everyone read it or everybody watched it like star tek. Then people startede to make the story into a religion...ect



#35 luvsmyncis

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 08:04 PM

Nah, Im a x-christian and i beleive, that the bible was like a story like harry potter at that time.
Everyone read it or everybody watched it like star tek. Then people startede to make the story into a religion...ect

Mr. Spock finds your argument... illogical.
Posted Image

Edited by punkrockbigmouth, 12 March 2010 - 08:05 PM.


#36 chobitz

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 08:25 PM

This should be ok for canadians:
http://abcnews.go.co...ory?id=10045436

It has the video and a story that goes into more details.

#37 ShadowLink64

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 08:59 PM

This has to be some kind of crime against humanity in the works. Putting a gay or lesbian to death because they are attracted to the same sex? That's absolutely ludicrous, not to mention completely and utterly intolerant.

(I don't think anyone eats shit like he's saying.)

#38 Elindoril

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 09:09 PM

This has to be some kind of crime against humanity in the works. Putting a gay or lesbian to death because they are attracted to the same sex? That's absolutely ludicrous, not to mention completely and utterly intolerant.

(I don't think anyone eats shit like he's saying.)

What I find both humorous and stupid at the same time is the man who brought this problem to Uganda in the first place is now spacing himself from the bill, and that they think homosexuality is destroying a family based society, yet I see more problems arising from the anti-gay communities then I do from the homosexuals themselves, they get married, adopt, start a family, and just live a normal life, I see no problem with that.

#39 Sweeney

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Posted 13 March 2010 - 02:15 AM

Mr. Spock finds your argument... illogical.
Posted Image

Ah, the pon farr.

#40 kbbbb

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Posted 13 March 2010 - 02:32 AM

There's also a sizable portion that like to say that since atheists don't have a source of absolute morality, they're not accountable to any higher authority and can therefore sin all they want (whereas Christians supposedly can't). What absolute is there about a Bible that has certain "irrelevant" (as kbbb said above) parts to it?

So where then do most "sensible" Christians derive what is right and wrong? I'm inclined to say that they develop their values in the same way atheists do -- from their upbringing, and what is considered right and wrong by the society they live in.

I think most of the Christians who fit more comfortably in the mainstream view the bible through the eyes of their time, and the time it was written for. That is why a lot of Leviticus is no longer valid. Also, there were always problems in translations as the languages it was written in were simpler, and the people who did the translation may have been biased. This accounts for the many editions available.

However, I think Christians, unlike Atheists, derive what they think is right and wrong from the bible, and depending on their view on it and themselves, decide how to live their lives and what their morals are.

#41 Xwee

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 07:30 PM

17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

The part "I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them" <-> "not the smallest letter, nor the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the law until everything is accomplished"

Correct me if I'm wrong but he DOES say that he is to fulfill them, if he's "dead" then its all been accomplished so.. wouldn't that be a "You may now rid yourself of the old ways"? After all doesn't he "Wash away ALL your sins"? Which means a child molester can go into heaven tonight if he were to be "saved" and were to die. And a saint WILL go to hell if he doesnt get "saved". Its how I was taught.

wow, that came in late due to my keyboard not typing right for me, sorry about that ^-^ but seriously...

#42 moosejuice

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 12:22 PM

My main point here, is that, not everybody under the flag of a "Christian" really practices the religion. Also, there are so many different variations of Christianity. I, myself, am a Catholic. Somebody before said that most Christians determine their own morality by looking at the Bible through their own eyes. How could they not? I feel that is a normal thing for a person to do. I feel that many of the stories in the Bible are to be taken as a story that teaches a point rather than a literal truth. I however, believe there are SOME parts that are literal truths. It is difficult for any one person to know how to determine which stories are literal or not. This doesn't mean that I think somebody else should "tell" you what to believe. But, it's ok for help. This "help" gives some clergy too much power. So, they start putting their own interpretations into other people's heads. This is an abuse of power. So, believe you have to place the blame on the preacher not the religion. Anyway. I am not sure I have made myself clear with all of this because I recently had a pretty big surgery and am on a lot of pan medicine. So I will say this:

You cannot judge all people based on the extremists. The majority of extremists are trying to fulfill some personal agenda. Many people judge based on extremists because they are in the news. I am not saying you should definitely be a Christian, or that being a Christian is the only true path. I'm just asking not to judge based on the actions of a few rather than the lives of many.

#43 Xwee

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 05:24 PM

My main point here, is that, not everybody under the flag of a "Christian" really practices the religion. Also, there are so many different variations of Christianity. I, myself, am a Catholic. Somebody before said that most Christians determine their own morality by looking at the Bible through their own eyes. How could they not? I feel that is a normal thing for a person to do. I feel that many of the stories in the Bible are to be taken as a story that teaches a point rather than a literal truth. I however, believe there are SOME parts that are literal truths. It is difficult for any one person to know how to determine which stories are literal or not. This doesn't mean that I think somebody else should "tell" you what to believe. But, it's ok for help. This "help" gives some clergy too much power. So, they start putting their own interpretations into other people's heads. This is an abuse of power. So, believe you have to place the blame on the preacher not the religion. Anyway. I am not sure I have made myself clear with all of this because I recently had a pretty big surgery and am on a lot of pan medicine. So I will say this:

You cannot judge all people based on the extremists. The majority of extremists are trying to fulfill some personal agenda. Many people judge based on extremists because they are in the news. I am not saying you should definitely be a Christian, or that being a Christian is the only true path. I'm just asking not to judge based on the actions of a few rather than the lives of many.


I have know very many christians through my life, and of all of them there is only one that I respect for their religion. I have had one that would tell me that anything is "devil worship" from Harry Potter, to Pokemon, To neopets. I have had people that would shove a cross in my face every time I turned around because of what my religion was. I have known t hose that are two faced or backstabbers. I have even met those that say "I hold the ONLY truth".. I don't pay enough attention to the news to judge based on LARGE groups or extremists, I only know the people I met.

To me if a religion is the right religion for you, then it shows. Your happier, your kinder, you prosper more, you understand more. Your more relaxed and your not constantly worried. I myself, I don't believe in the boogeyman and to me that's what satan appears to be.. "Eat your vegies or the boogeyman will get you!" "Don't kill or your going to hell!" see the similarities?

I felt I ought to add this. I am not insulting the religion itself, nor the followers, its god SOME good points to it depending on the branch. Its just most of the christians I have met are hypocritical and not my idea of what a real christian should be. I'm sorry if this makes you feel personally attacked, I don't know you well enough to know if your a "real christian" "extremist" or "hypocrite" so I'm not directing any of this AT you, this is just my thoughts on the matter at hand.

Okay I think I'm done ranting/babbling.

#44 Melchoire

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 06:28 PM

No. Killing someone else, even in the name or religion (Which is impossible) forbides you from going to heaven. One of the ten commandments states exactly



Christianity is 100% against harming others. Its called turn the other cheek philosophy.





People who kill other people, or who hurt other people do not follow Christianity. The KKK people where not true Christians, because they broke one of the 10 commandments. Christianity is 100% against what these people are doing. Please stop fucking judging us based upon them. It pisses me off.


"People are whatever religion they say they are..."
-Joe

#45 jcrdude

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 06:38 PM

"People are whatever religion they say they are..."
-Joe


I'm a Jedi

#46 Mr. Hobo

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 07:28 PM

I'm a Jedi


http://en.wikipedia....nsus_phenomenon

jajajaja

#47 Melchoire

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 10:47 PM

I'm a Jedi


I suppose the Jedi's could be considered a religion.

#48 moosejuice

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 10:57 PM

I have know very many christians through my life, and of all of them there is only one that I respect for their religion. I have had one that would tell me that anything is "devil worship" from Harry Potter, to Pokemon, To neopets. I have had people that would shove a cross in my face every time I turned around because of what my religion was. I have known t hose that are two faced or backstabbers. I have even met those that say "I hold the ONLY truth".. I don't pay enough attention to the news to judge based on LARGE groups or extremists, I only know the people I met.

To me if a religion is the right religion for you, then it shows. Your happier, your kinder, you prosper more, you understand more. Your more relaxed and your not constantly worried. I myself, I don't believe in the boogeyman and to me that's what satan appears to be.. "Eat your vegies or the boogeyman will get you!" "Don't kill or your going to hell!" see the similarities?

I felt I ought to add this. I am not insulting the religion itself, nor the followers, its god SOME good points to it depending on the branch. Its just most of the christians I have met are hypocritical and not my idea of what a real christian should be. I'm sorry if this makes you feel personally attacked, I don't know you well enough to know if your a "real christian" "extremist" or "hypocrite" so I'm not directing any of this AT you, this is just my thoughts on the matter at hand.

Okay I think I'm done ranting/babbling.


Of course I don't feel personally attacked. You haven't said anything against me personally. I will say that I tend to base my morality more on how I was raised rather than the rules of my religion. Anyway, I can see the similarities. I can also see the similarities between the Christian Myth and the myths of religions and cultures past and present. And I don't mean myth in the sense of a fake story... only as a story. And, I am sorry that you have had such things said to you. I don't think I would say that I have the one truth, but I will say that I have my truth.

#49 Xwee

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 07:54 AM

Of course I don't feel personally attacked. You haven't said anything against me personally. I will say that I tend to base my morality more on how I was raised rather than the rules of my religion. Anyway, I can see the similarities. I can also see the similarities between the Christian Myth and the myths of religions and cultures past and present. And I don't mean myth in the sense of a fake story... only as a story. And, I am sorry that you have had such things said to you. I don't think I would say that I have the one truth, but I will say that I have my truth.


For that I tip my hat to you. Very few have I met were willing to admit that their truth isn't the only truth. If you promise not to burn me at the stake I'll confess.

Okay my darn spoiler box aint working. :(

Wiccan.. I wanted it in a spoiler though!

Edited by Xwee, 01 April 2010 - 07:58 AM.


#50 moosejuice

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 10:02 AM

For that I tip my hat to you. Very few have I met were willing to admit that their truth isn't the only truth. If you promise not to burn me at the stake I'll confess.

Okay my darn spoiler box aint working. :(

Wiccan.. I wanted it in a spoiler though!


Oh ok. I know a guy up here at school that is Wiccan. Pretty funny guy.


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