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Bullshit, or not?


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#1 Boggart

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 12:45 PM

From Viacom:

We do not freeze based upon the speed of the restock but rather using a page loading protocol program based on Autobuyers we have been given or recovered. Once a player purchases particular items using a set protocol, we then hypertrack that player's restocking of certain items (changing certain elements) and review against a set history of the particular autobuyer's "reaction" to the changed elements (this is a simplified explanation). We have thoroughly tested this system for accuracy.

Bullshit? Very scary?


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    #2 val

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    Posted 22 April 2010 - 12:47 PM

    maybe

    source?

    still doesnt explain why people have managed to fly under the radar for a long time

    #3 Boggart

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    Posted 22 April 2010 - 12:50 PM

    Some other forum. I didn't post the other crap. I got letters from viacom (e-mails, what am I saying) about really scary stuff. So it is possible

    but that doens't explain why legit RS'ers get frozen too

    #4 Warriors

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    Posted 22 April 2010 - 12:50 PM

    lets have a Gladiator competition....TNT's programmers vs. Neocodex programmers..

    #5 Waser Lave

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    Posted 22 April 2010 - 12:52 PM

    We have people who have autobought for years without getting iced.

    Where was this from btw? PM me links if you can't post it.

    #6 ShadowLink64

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    Posted 22 April 2010 - 02:06 PM

    Where is this from? You do know that you can mention other sites, right? (just can't link them)

    Could you PM me a link as well? Also, is there a less "simplified" explanation that is more technical?

    EDIT: Nevermind, it's at HiddenBelow.

    #7 GreenScissors

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    Posted 22 April 2010 - 02:35 PM

    oh damn they're getting pretty good at this. if true

    #8 Sweeney

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    Posted 22 April 2010 - 02:44 PM

    What elements could they add that an autobuyer would react to?
    The only thing I can think of is hidden links.

    #9 Waser Lave

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    Posted 22 April 2010 - 02:46 PM

    Maybe we should email this particular staff member and ask for more details. :rolleyes:

    #10 Junsu

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    Posted 22 April 2010 - 03:15 PM

    Where is this from? You do know that you can mention other sites, right? (just can't link them)

    Could you PM me a link as well? Also, is there a less "simplified" explanation that is more technical?

    EDIT: Nevermind, it's at HiddenBelow.




    Posted Image

    Also from HB:




    Your account was frozen because of the following accounts (and has sincebeen linked to Neopoint selling):

    pinguin_mata - [Name on Aber deleted], 6 times, Magic Item shops,
    10-04-14. Blue Lupe Morphing Potion, Pink Lenny Morphing Potion, Cloud
    Grundo Morphing Potion, Rainbow Shoyru Morphing Potion, Faerie Buzz
    Morphing Potion, Starry Hissi Morphing Potion.

    foolishtree - [Name on Aber deleted], 7 times, Magic Item shops,
    10-04-14. Fire Flotsam Morphing Potion, Pink Uni Morphing Potion, Fire
    Yurble Morphing Potion, Purple Chia Morphing Potion, Blue Bori Morphing
    Potion, Desert Tuskaninny Morphing Potion, Orange Kougra Morphing
    Potion.

    guitarherophenomguit - [Name on Aber deleted], 3 times, Magic Item
    shops, 10-04-18. Pink Draik Morphing Potion, Island Wocky Morphing
    Potion, Split Lupe Morphing Potion.


    Edited by Junsu, 22 April 2010 - 03:19 PM.


    #11 kadoatie

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    Posted 22 April 2010 - 04:40 PM

    The increasing competency of TNT is starting to get really annoying.

    #12 val

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    Posted 22 April 2010 - 05:29 PM

    Posted Image

    Also from HB:




    But that still doesn't explain how they detected ABing

    just that those accounts got a lot of expensive items



    #13 iargue

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    Posted 22 April 2010 - 06:08 PM

    This is utter bullshit.

    Explanation:

    "We do not freeze based upon the speed of the restock but rather using a page loading protocol program based on Autobuyers we have been given or recovered."


    Page Loading Protocol based upon Autobuyers? Let me explain what Firefox does when you load a web page.

    It sends the following information as Header Data

    (Request-Line):GET /objects.phtml?type=shop&obj_type=1 HTTP/1.1
    Host:www.neopets.com
    User-Agent:Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.6) Gecko/20091201 Firefox/3.5.6 (.NET CLR 3.5.30729)
    Accept:text/html,application/xhtml+xml,application/xml;q=0.9,*/*;q=0.8
    Accept-Language:en-us,en;q=0.5
    Accept-Encoding:gzip,deflate
    Accept-Charset:ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7
    Keep-Alive:300
    Connection:keep-alive
    Referer:http://www.neopets.com/objects.phtml
    Cookie:np_randseed=25574978745680096; np_uniq=2010-04-22; xt6Yr4e33D=26altered8036723318230; __utma=258639253.175543723.1altered268719.1266115494.10; __utmz=258639253.1265682237.1.1.utmccn=(direct)|utmcsr=(direct)|utmcmd=(none); np_uniq_=2010-04-22; neoremember=<removed>; neologin=<removed>%2B8ealtered7f528218720bb8b4b5d47ab014e5; toolbar=iargue3%2BC%2B8e55ff624a157f528218720bb8b4b5d47ab014e5; np_uniq_<removed>=2010-04-22; ld_=2010-04-11; ld_<removed>=2010-04-11; nnhmzxpz=2010-03-29; npuid=altered333004A00390900126000000706775006500304003323; _tz=300; __utmb=258639253; __utmc=258639253; PHPSESSID=94a930e488714alteredcf65a3f7c
    Cache-Control:max-age=0

    It then sends a query string or post data if it is required (based on the previous link), or it doesnt even have to send anything. The query string for Shop 1 would be.

    type=shop
    obj_type=1
    

    The web page then returns data based upon that request.

    This is what Abrosia sends.

    (Request-Line):GET /objects.phtml?type=shop&obj_type=1 HTTP/1.1
    Host:www.neopets.com
    User-Agent:Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.6) Gecko/20091201 Firefox/3.5.6 (.NET CLR 3.5.30729)
    Accept:text/html,application/xhtml+xml,application/xml;q=0.9,*/*;q=0.8
    Accept-Language:en-us,en;q=0.5
    Accept-Encoding:gzip,deflate
    Accept-Charset:ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7
    Keep-Alive:300
    Connection:keep-alive
    Referer:http://www.neopets.com/objects.phtml
    Cookie:np_randseed=25574978745680096; np_uniq=2010-04-22; xt6Yr4e33D=2altered41878036723318230; __utma=258639253.17554372altered82237.1265268719.1266115494.10; __utmz=258639253.1265682237.1.1.utmccn=(direct)|utmcsr=(direct)|utmcmd=(none); np_uniq_=2010-04-22; neoremember=<removed>; neologin=<removed>%2B8e55ff624a157f52alteredbb8b4b5d47ab014e5; toolbar=<removed>%2BC%2B8e55ff624altered218720bb8b4b5d47ab014e5; np_uniq_<removed>=2010-04-22; ld_=2010-04-11; ld_<removed>=2010-04-11; nnhmzxpz=2010-03-29; npuid=afb310030062060c500altered3004A00390900126000000706775006500304003323; _tz=300; __utmb=258639253; __utmc=258639253; PHPSESSID=94a930e48871altered21f3becf65a3f7c
    Cache-Control:max-age=0
    


    I altered the cookie data, because it contained my username and password :p (Username wasnt even hashed :o).
    And here is the query string.

    type=shop
    obj_type=1
    


    Based upon how the AutoBuyer loads the page, and how Firefox loads the page. There is -no- difference. NONE. Thank you for that bullshit Viacom.

    Spoiler


    "Once a player purchases particular items using a set protocol, we then hypertrack"


    Hypertack? Thats right. Scare us with words that sound like they are technology based. According to google, they made this word up.

    No definitions were found for hypertrack.

    Suggestions:
    - Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
    - Search the Web for documents that contain "hypertrack"


    If google says it doesnt exist. It doesnt exist.

    Spoiler


    Moving on.

    that player's restocking of certain items (changing certain elements)


    Changing what elements? I have saved the debug from my last 50 purchased items, and went through the HTML on -every- page. Nothing changed. Every time I purchased an item, it remained the same links, the same query data. -the same html-. The only different was my pets NP on hand. I ran with through a page difference protocol. and the only lines it show as changing was.

    1)The np on hand
    2)The price/name of the item and item pictures link.

    So... I am guessing that the element that they change is the item. Which would mean that everyone who purchases an item would look like an AutoBuyer.

    and review against a set history of the particular autobuyer's "reaction" to the changed elements (this is a simplified explanation).


    What would the "reaction" be? The post data never changed. The query string never changed. The html of the page never even changed. The only thing that changed was the item. So they are trying to tell me that AutoBuyers purchase different items then a normal user? Retarded.

    Spoiler


    We have thoroughly tested this system for accuracy


    True. This system would catch 100% of the cheaters. But dont you lose accuracy rating for catching 100% of people who are not cheating as well? I guess they said they tested it for accuracy, not that it was accurate.

    And there you go. We took TNT's bullshit step by step, and laughed the entire time. I just wish I had PunkRockBigMouths gif collection to spice this up for a little bit. (Actually, she gave me some. Sweet!)



    If HiddenBelow actually believes this bullshit, STOP USING THEIR PROGRAMS IMMEDIATELY. Their programmers are more incompetent then TNT's (Which is saying something).

    Happy Abing!

    #14 Scot

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    Posted 22 April 2010 - 06:13 PM

    Incinerated

    Edited by Scot, 22 April 2010 - 06:13 PM.


    #15 Xwee

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    Posted 22 April 2010 - 06:21 PM

    TnT FibBusters!

    #16 Boggart

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    Posted 22 April 2010 - 06:23 PM

    Sorry, at work :o Not avoiding the issue

    I think it's just to scare us. The one that also said [Name of Autobuyer Deleted] reported that THEY removed the name of the AB'er, not the OP.

    It wouldn't make sense that even if I buy ONE item with unsafe settings using an AB'er and I get frozen the next day, or literally 1000 items using safe settings and I'll be fine for months. Doesn't make sense.

    #17 iargue

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    Posted 22 April 2010 - 06:26 PM

    Sorry, at work :o Not avoiding the issue

    I think it's just to scare us. The one that also said [Name of Autobuyer Deleted] reported that THEY removed the name of the AB'er, not the OP.

    It wouldn't make sense that even if I buy ONE item with unsafe settings using an AB'er and I get frozen the next day, or literally 1000 items using safe settings and I'll be fine for months. Doesn't make sense.



    Mind reading the rest of the topic?

    #18 Boggart

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    Posted 22 April 2010 - 06:37 PM

    I did read the rest of the post :o I'm just saying even if they did try and rebut your arguments (not that they could) I'd still not believe them.

    #19 Xwee

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    Posted 22 April 2010 - 06:42 PM

    If someone came in trying to rebut arguments I'd assume TNT right off the bat lol. A programmer SHOULD know what the programs DO after all..

    #20 BuckFutter

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    Posted 22 April 2010 - 06:42 PM

    Mythbusters should do an episode on this!

    #21 Boggart

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    Posted 22 April 2010 - 06:43 PM

    Pretty sure iargue busted this myth pretty well already :p

    #22 Elindoril

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    Posted 22 April 2010 - 06:45 PM

    Mythbusters should do an episode on this!

    Unless it involved blowing up TNT HQ, they'd decline the offer.

    #23 Xwee

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    Posted 22 April 2010 - 06:46 PM

    Mythbusters should do an episode on this!


    NO NO NO NO!:x3:

    Cause then they would have to explain HOW autobuyers work and such then TNT would know how they work and would make a program to safeguard against ours, that just wouldn't do.

    Sure our amazing programmer's could come up with a way to avoid letting tnt detect them but would you REALLY want to wait until it's made? This one works, lets not make a necessity for a new Abrosia!

    #24 Kway

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    Posted 22 April 2010 - 07:22 PM

    NO NO NO NO!:x3:

    Cause then they would have to explain HOW autobuyers work and such then TNT would know how they work and would make a program to safeguard against ours, that just wouldn't do.

    Sure our amazing programmer's could come up with a way to avoid letting tnt detect them but would you REALLY want to wait until it's made? This one works, lets not make a necessity for a new Abrosia!



    TNT should already know all the details of how autobuyers work. They all use the same structure for any bot or script. Check current status, loop the action to find a target, complete the actions, follow-up on the actions, and repeat while anti-freeze runs in sync with the bot (either based on current action or run in a separate script that interrupts the main script).

    If you ask me, I would be more interested in Mythbusters revealing how TNT catches autobuyers. A non-existent price to pay for an opportunity to find flaws to exploit.

    #25 iargue

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    Posted 22 April 2010 - 07:23 PM

    TNT should already know all the details of how autobuyers work. They all use the same structure for any bot or script. Check current status, loop the action to find a target, complete the actions, follow-up on the actions, and repeat while anti-freeze runs in sync with the bot (either based on current action or run in a separate script that interrupts the main script).

    If you ask me, I would be more interested in Mythbusters revealing how TNT catches autobuyers. A non-existent price to pay for an opportunity to find flaws to exploit.


    I remember reading about a site that you can pay people to leak information... Hrm.


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