52 replies to this topic

[Melchoire]

Here's the article:
http://www.guardian....ael2?CMP=twt_gu

But the jist of it is that a 13 year old palestinian school girl ventured too close to an army post with her school bag. When she got close she put her bag down and shots were fired at the bag to confirm it didn't have a bomb. As she started walking away she was shot by Captain R. He then approached her body fired into her head and then emptied his entire magazine into her body. The captain has been acquitted of all charges by a military court although none of them included murder.

It makes me sick the kind of injustice that's being done to the palestinians there. Were this an israeli child it would have been a very different story. How does anyone justify killing a little girl like that. Not just the captain but the entire fucking court. Wasn't there one person there who raised their hand and said, "uhh can we fire him at least?" He emptied his magazine even after he shot her in the head, so either he was doing it for fun or knew she was jewish and hated jews a lot.

Discuss

[EzioAuditore]

Your summary is enough for me to comment on it.

I don't really care where you live or what the situation is. No one deserves to be murdered in cold blood like that, it's just wrong.

It would have been different if it was a bomb or if the girl had a gun pointed at them, or anything of that sort, but it wasn't anywhere near that.

It makes me mad that because of what happened in WWII that the Jewish people essentially stole (with help of other countries) Palestine away from it's own citizens.

You are right, too. If it would have been a little Israeli girl, the whole world would have flipped out.

[Warriors]

So sad..Much BS going about in the world..I found it funny he wasn't even charged with murder...only minor offenses and still was acquitted..The US needs to stop bending over for Israel. Hold them accountable for their actions like they do with other nations who receive our aid...

[Faval]

Well on one hand, he was doing his job as a guard. Guarding the perimeters and killing anything that trespasses and then going in to make sure the target is "dead" after being shot.

On the other hand it just sounds like a whole lot of shit emptying a clip on a dead person...I mean double tapping is fine and all but seriously now, firing your entire load onto a corpse? That's some bullshit right there.

This article is pretty old from 2005, hmmm, wonder if there's an update to it. Probably not.

[Warriors]

Faval...I really dont think a "10" year old girl is much of a threat...Granted there are many numerous child soldiers out there, but there are ways to go about this that doesn't have to end in bloodshed. There were multiple other solutions they could have followed. If this was the US, or any other civilized nation, there would been charges, or at the very least a dishonorable discharge. But for this soldier, he probably will get a medal.

[Melchoire]

Well on one hand, he was doing his job as a guard. Guarding the perimeters and killing anything that trespasses and then going in to make sure the target is "dead" after being shot.

On the other hand it just sounds like a whole lot of shit emptying a clip on a dead person...I mean double tapping is fine and all but seriously now, firing your entire load onto a corpse? That's some bullshit right there.

This article is pretty old from 2005, hmmm, wonder if there's an update to it. Probably not.

Wow I didn't even see that. I'll look into it =]

[ShadowLink64]

Wow, this stuff just pisses me off. Something should have happened to them.

[Waser Lave]

Wow, this stuff just pisses me off. Something should have happened to them.

They should be put in some kind of chamber and gassed, I'm surprised nobody else has thought of doing that before...

[xToxic]

I do agree that he was doing his job; The child shouldnt have been there, They know what goes on in their country and its not like shes too young to understand.
The whole shooting the body after? He knew she was dead so; Fucked up much? Her family have to bury her so having how ever many bullets in her just isnt nice.

I dont really have one set opinion on this.

@Warriors ; This wouldnt happen in a civilized country, You and i have seen what happens with bomb scares, The whole military just sit round it with bomb disposal experts and what not, Quite amusing really. Nobody would get shot, or killed.

[Noitidart]

Gosh that is so so sad. This happens so much. You know the last incident for the flotilla. Where they said they won't allow outside investigation. Whatever they found the result was just like this, none of them were even charged with anything.

Also some soldier was posting pictures of her posing with blindfolded prisoners on her facebook. The military said if she was still a solider she would have been immediately court martialed(sp?). Yeah right, we would just see this same thing.

I do agree that he was doing his job; The child shouldnt have been there, They know what goes on in their country and its not like shes too young to understand.

This cannot be justified with that reason. It can't be justified by any reason really, I sure would like to hear it if you can.
You're treating a 13 year old girl like an adult, ok I admit some may be mature at that age. Nonetheless, after school how tired/exhausted are you (you don't even have the heat like they have over there)and just want to sit down?
Even if it was an adult they had shot the bag and saw it wasn't a bomb. So it was not ok to shoot whoever it was after finding out it was safe. But again, it was a 13 year old girl...

Well on one hand, he was doing his job as a guard. Guarding the perimeters and killing anything that trespasses and then going in to make sure the target is "dead" after being shot.

On the other hand it just sounds like a whole lot of shit emptying a clip on a dead person...I mean double tapping is fine and all but seriously now, firing your entire load onto a corpse? That's some bullshit right there.

This article is pretty old from 2005, hmmm, wonder if there's an update to it. Probably not.

The gaurd wouldn't shoot a dog that came into its perimeter. Now shooting an unarmed 13 year old girl.. thats not his job, but in Israel it happens often so it may well be. Btw those perimeters are actually illegal and that area she was "trespassing" on actually was her land.
Its old but I'm glad mel brought it up. No one pays attention to this and Israel does whatever they please with US backing them.

[xToxic]

I think i have justified it, She knew she would get shot if she went there. Regardless of how tired i was i wouldnt go anywhere near somewhere like that.
You telling me you would have gone there?

Its up to them what they wana do, Theres fuck all we can do about it really.


EDIT ; Just read through the full article and saw "confirmed the kill" like it was some sort of hunting exersize, Deary me...

Edited by xtoxic, 30 August 2010 - 03:20 PM.

[Lallard]

Sure, the guard was just doing his job, but the part where he emptied a goddamn clip on the dead kid was clearly done with intent and therefore should've been used against him to fire his ass.

I totally would've understood the part about shooting the bag, as well as suspicion that the kid is working for a terrorist group -- anybody can be a threat.
I'm wondering now what kind of protocol would they have in situations like these? I mean the best solution to the situation would have to be putting up some sort of warning to the kid several times (well we'll never know if they did give out warnings--media might have omitted this to sell their story).

[Noitidart]

I think i have justified it, She knew she would get shot if she went there. Regardless of how tired i was i wouldnt go anywhere near somewhere like that.
You telling me you would have gone there?

Its up to them what they wana do, Theres fuck all we can do about it really.


EDIT ; Just read through the full article and saw "confirmed the kill" like it was some sort of hunting exersize, Deary me...

I think you're forgetting the desert heat as I mentioned above.
Regardless of the desert heat the justification of brutally killing a 13 year old girl is real sickening and quite senseless. There is a lot you can do, you can start by condemning this action and see how far you go. But it looks like you think this was justified/right thing to do.

Sure, the guard was just doing his job, but the part where he emptied a goddamn clip on the dead kid was clearly done with intent and therefore should've been used against him to fire his ass.

I totally would've understood the part about shooting the bag, as well as suspicion that the kid is working for a terrorist group -- anybody can be a threat.
I'm wondering now what kind of protocol would they have in situations like these? I mean the best solution to the situation would have to be putting up some sort of warning to the kid several times (well we'll never know if they did give out warnings--media might have omitted this to sell their story).

His job of shooting the bag right? (which i also think was much) I really hope you don't mean his job of shooting the girl.
Israel calls anyone against them a terrorist. Do you actually believe a 13 year old girl is a terrorist?

[xToxic]

After reading the article fully, it seems she was shot after running and hiding, am i right?
(the little script right at the bottom)

I was under the impression the bag was shot and then she continued towards the guards and what not.
Which then would be justified because she her self may have had a bomb straped to her.

[Noitidart]

Now that you have a little sympathy for this 13 year girl. After a hot day at school you're dehydrated wouldn't you go sit in what you thought was your area to sit in? A 13 year old does not know the invisible borders israel has set up.

[xToxic]

I honestly dont know, Personally i wouldnt walk anywhere near the place she was, we all know what that country is like, its in the news almost every day.
I get tired walking home in the snow dude so yeah i can imagine; Fair enough she proberbly was really tired, and its unfortunate that she walked where she was in danger.

[Noitidart]

Palestinans aren't rich like us. They can't afford the luxury we have, flat screens, cable etc. Whatever they get is probably over radio. A 13 year old knowing the invisible borders is just ridiculous. Israel keeps these Palestinians in the unknown like this and then through their lobby in the US showing one incident over and over again (suicide bomb attempts) they dehumanize and remove the innocence of even children, you can do a lot toxic, you just have to see through this bogus and see these people as humans.

[xToxic]

She must have been close to have been seen by them though, Regardless of luxuaries, id go out of my way to keep away from there knowing who is there and what the dangers are.

[Noitidart]

She was in her own area. On her path back from school.

[xToxic]

Does it say that in the article?

[EzioAuditore]

Like I said earlier, I think the only way that he would have been justified is if the girl had a gun pointed at them.

That's the only thing that makes logical sense, even in America.

[Noitidart]

It makes clear that she was not in Israel. Further key words like: School girl in the title. School bag. Time of day. etc.
You mentioned over PM you aren't influenced by media so lets form our own opinion based on those key words. A 13 year old schoolgirl with school bag. I calculate the probability of her being a terrorist at negative two million percent.

Thanks ezio for your input
And thanks toxic for this discussion, i think makes a lot of stuff clear to a lot of people and how we can actually do something about it. IE: pull our public support and publically condemn these actions.

[xToxic]

It makes clear that she was not in Israel. Futher key words like: School girl in the title. School bag. Time of day. etc.
You mentioned over PM you aren't influenced by media so lets form our own opinion based on those key words. A 13 year old schoolgirl with school bag. I calculate the probability of her being a terrorist at negative two million percent.

Well yeah, I guess you have got a point with the time of the day and her bag and i presume some sort of uniform.

[Noitidart]

Just want to say thanks again to mel. For posting this and giving me the chance to have this awesome discussion with toxic. I think we were able to humanize a people that is continually dehumanized. Toxic you were great to talk this with, thanks to you too. You were open to ideas and willing to discuss it.

[xToxic]

Thanks to you too Noit, Im glad we had the conversation, Made me see things in a whole different light,.