241 replies to this topic

[Ives]

Here's the problem, if the people were intelligent enough, and actually read the Bible it's quite easy to make conclusions about if what the church is telling you is correct or not.

Not to offend anyone, but that's the way I see it.

Sadly, people don't read the bible nowadays. They just get told by the pastors and higher people of their church how everything went down. This is bad in a way, because many may mislead them into believing God is an incredibly nice blessing. While if you actually read the bible, you see that he's an angry God who will grant you heaven if you work for it.

[Hawk]

Sadly, people don't read the bible nowadays. They just get told by the pastors and higher people of their church how everything went down. This is bad in a way, because many may mislead them into believing God is an incredibly nice blessing. While if you actually read the bible, you see that he's an angry God who will grant you heaven if you work for it.

Uhh, while your at it say God will stick you into purgatory for years unless you give the Church a few hundred bucks.

A lot of people do not read the Bible, I havent, I need to pick it up soon. God is an incredibly nice blessing, he gave up his Son to free us from our sins.

[Ives]

Uhh, while your at it say God will stick you into purgatory for years unless you give the Church a few hundred bucks.

A lot of people do not read the Bible, I havent, I need to pick it up soon. God is an incredibly nice blessing, he gave up his Son to free us from our sins.

He is a blessing, yes, but he put us here to trial us and put us in his divine plan. If you accept his son, Jesus Christ, as lord and savior, then you will build a stronger relationship with him. If you reject Jesus Christ as the saviour, then you will have a harder time. I'm not saying he isn't great, but to say he isn't an angry God is a little strange.

This post was written in a Christian view, and does not nessecarily reflect the belief of the author.

Edited by Athean, 06 August 2006 - 09:06 PM.

[shabba]

Its jsut wrong... im not even that religous but the phrase..

Its Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve. Im totaly against single sex relationships make me feel ill. yuck

[Inside Of You]

"Its jsut wrong... im not even that religous but the phrase.."

At least you're against it because of personal views, not because a book tells you so.

Hell, reading this makes me want to go atheist. Organized religion causes more problems than it solves.

This entire topic is about the freakin' Bible, not about personal opinions.

Example: Let's say a building blows up. 40 people die 32 people live. All the Christians will say, GOD LET ME LIVE, THANKS GOD, GOD LOVES ME! What about the other 32 dead people? God hated them? Of course, they must have all been atheist or gay or something stupid the Westboro Baptist Church believes in.

And that's based on responses from actual events.

Anyways, unless someone uses their own brain to argue their point, rather than quote from a book based off a belief, I'm out. Cause' you guys are too damn uptight about it.

[Hawk]

And I hope you're out, because you have no respect for other's religions, I havn't said a damn thing about your belief and you know it.

Has he even said what he believes in yet? I asked him and I dont think he answered.

[Ives]

Adam and Eve sinned, ever since that we have been screwed. It's man own fault we live like we do now.

Which only furthers my point that life IS a test. Because they sinned, we live in a world of sin. We live in a world where the devil is at every turn, and where there is religion, bigotry, evil, murder, and so many other things that tests our faith.

This post was written in a Christian view, and does not nessecarily reflect the belief of the author.

Christians die everyday from martyrs. If you don't believe me i'll get you the records right now. All over China, Japan, and South America, Christians unfairly die. So your whole logic there is retarted.

True statement. Christians have been martyred more than any other religious group. But numbers don't count for much, because the bigger the religion, the more chance of bad things happening, such as bigotry, extremism, wars, and being martyred by other religious people. Though Christianity has calmed down a lot since recent goverment changes. If you look at Islamic goverments such as Saudi Arabia, you'll see that there are many more problems. But just as Christian goverment / secular goverment with a majority of christians did, Islamic goverment / secular goverment with a majority of Muslims are growing much more tolerable of other religions.

Edited by Athean, 07 August 2006 - 12:36 PM.

[/Max]

So your religion says gays are bad. We can debate it for 10 pages.

...your religion is not America's constitution. Murderers, rapists, and stalkers can be married, which is COMPLETELY against the bible as much as homosexuality is, which can be debated, but it's completely pathetic to know that you support the marriage of somebody who can rape a child, and you wouldn't support the marriage of two men or women that are in love with each other, even though they may be model Americans citizens.

[Cript]

....

Actually, the Bible says the act of homosexuality is a sin, the people who commit it are no more worse or better then any other sinner, which is everyone on the planet. Homosexuals take no special place in my mind, they are a sinner just like everyone else. I think it's wrong for homosexuals to marry because it only further engages them in the act, making it harder to get out of then before. I'm just helping them out.

So, you missed the point. Sure a rapist can marry, nothing wrong with that. But when it comes to two men it fits into the category of homosexuality, which is a sin, and of course I don't support it. This is all in my perspective of course, so if you don't want to listen to it then go away. I'll argue with you for as long as you want, don't sit here and tell me I can't win just because your lazy and not getting anywhere.

Just to take his point further, God will forgive any sin, so long as the sinner recognizes his guilt and repents of it. If a rapist rapes someone, and is genuinely sorry, he can be absolved. A homosexual marriage, however; is a continuing sin and an unrepentant one...and that's why it is a problem. God can't forgive a homosexual if he doesn't want forgiveness.

[113]

This is completly of the topic (then again what is the current topic), so you may ignore this post.

Still, a few of you said they are against the womans right to abortion. What about in case of a rape and/or incest? Would you allow exceptions or not?


BTW: I'm a firm beliver in pro-chioce, but still I'm interested in your opinions.

[Typhoon]

I hate to sound racist or whatever... But the bible (and religion in general) is a load of bollocks (Brit slang for testicles, or replace it with the word 'shit' if you like).
Fair enough it gives something for people to believe in, that doesn't bother me.

It's just when people rule their lives by it and start quoting it and taking it for gospel (excuse the pun). The Bible was written by man over 1800 years ago. Back then it wasn't seen as acceptable for people to be gay. But now we're in 2006 and many (I'd like to say the majority but I can't) people aren't prejudiced towards homosexuals. We've evolved physically from apes, it would be nice if some people mentally evolved. Not mentioning any names from this topic.

And to the person who used the example about rapists and murderers being able to marry I praise you (in a non-religious sense) for that comment, it was perfect.

AliasXNeo, is everything you say backed up by religion? Just think how relevant the bible is to the world nowadays. Think of how much of a bigot you sound... Infact in my eyes you're a huge one with no relevant points to back up your discriminatory and insulting views, so I'm just gonna call you Adolf. 'kay?

[Cript]

I hate to sound racist or whatever... But the bible (and religion in general) is a load of bollocks (Brit slang for testicles, or replace it with the word 'shit' if you like).
Fair enough it gives something for people to believe in, that doesn't bother me.

It's just when people rule their lives by it and start quoting it and taking it for gospel (excuse the pun). The Bible was written by man over 1800 years ago. Back then it wasn't seen as acceptable for people to be gay. But now we're in 2006 and many (I'd like to say the majority but I can't) people aren't prejudiced towards homosexuals. We've evolved physically from apes, it would be nice if some people mentally evolved. Not mentioning any names from this topic.

And to the person who used the example about rapists and murderers being able to marry I praise you (in a non-religious sense) for that comment, it was perfect.

AliasXNeo, is everything you say backed up by religion? Just think how relevant the bible is to the world nowadays. Think of how much of a bigot you sound... Infact in my eyes you're a huge one with no relevant points to back up your discriminatory and insulting views, so I'm just gonna call you Adolf. 'kay?

Our beliefs differ, and this is no reason to berate people. Calling us biggots and Adolf just shows your low level of maturity and inability to carry on a debate. Our belief is that, while the bible was written by men; it was written by men inspired by God. The fact that you say the majority of people aren't prejudiced towards homsexuality makes me wonder how often you actually talk to people. We evolved physically from apes...oh here we go again, yet there are still apes running around. Are the current apes not smart enough or haven't they evolved because they're not tolerant of homosexuality? I'm so confused.

Wait, I think I found the missing link.

This is completly of the topic (then again what is the current topic), so you may ignore this post.

Still, a few of you said they are against the womans right to abortion. What about in case of a rape and/or incest? Would you allow exceptions or not?
BTW: I'm a firm beliver in pro-chioce, but still I'm interested in your opinions.

You pose an excellent question. I remember when Bob Dole ran back in 1996 as the republican nominee for president and his abortion stance was that it was condemend except for in cases of rape and incest. Unfortunately, this is a case I cannot agree with Bob Dole on because it would mean I'd be picking and choosing which parts of the bible to follow. It's definitely one of the harder decisions, but while there are people willing to adopt babies, none should really be aborted.

Edited by Cript, 11 August 2006 - 06:58 AM.

[113]

....
You pose an excellent question. I remember when Bob Dole ran back in 1996 as the republican nominee for president and his abortion stance was that it was condemend except for in cases of rape and incest. Unfortunately, this is a case I cannot agree with Bob Dole on because it would mean I'd be picking and choosing which parts of the bible to follow. It's definitely one of the harder decisions, but while there are people willing to adopt babies, none should really be aborted.

Yet again, I'll be off-topic.

Although I understand the reasons behind your choice, don't you think that the rape victims, would have been also punished, should the goverment decide to take your stance? And yes whilst giving a child up for an adoption is a some-what viable option; there is a downside. Mainly depression (both for the original mother and new parents -> see PAD) and in many cases social blackballing (excuse me for using such term, but I do not know any other synonym)

PS: And while your (and mine) opinion, does not matter in the end, don't you think it's better to leave it as is (legal), than reverting back to "Back-Alley abortion", with a clothes hangers and knitting needles?

[shabba]

And you sound like an ignorant moron who believes we evolved from monkey's.

Please tell me you didnt just call him a moron for believing that..

[/Max]

Please tell me you didnt just call him a moron for believing that..

Yeah really.

It's much more plausible to believe our closest relative was something we slowly changed from over millions of years.. I think it's easier to beleive that, when we have minor proof of it. Much easier to believe than believing a faerie poofed us in a magical garden, as told by one of those lovely King Henrys while he was suffering from bowel movement problems on the toilet, writing(/rewriting) what we know as the bible today.

I trust science over what some king wrote so many years ago.


[edit]and by the way, you know nothing of science, so don't tell me i haven't read the bible, when i have. science tells us that we evolved from CHIMPANZEES, not monkeys, as you said. if you knew anything about the theory, or read about it, you WOULD know that. And yes, a monkey and a chimpanzee are two completely different species. I doubt you've ever even met a chimpanzee to see how different we really ARENT.

and YES.. if you were wondering, i'm one of those INSANE CRAZY PEOPLE that believe that there were dinosaurs.

Edited by M-Xite, 11 August 2006 - 02:53 PM.

[/Max]

Similiar? Sure our body structure is similiar, but when it comes to intelligence? Yea..
I did, and I didn't say it for fun.

You've never met a chimpanzee. Thanks for proving it.

[Ives]

I realized debates suck hardcore anyways, but here's what I have to say about the theory of monkey's evolving, but others staying the way they were.

It is possible that in a certain time and in a specific enviroment, a group of chimps' slowly evolved into humans based on that specific enviroment in that specific place. Evolution stopped at a certain point when the adaption became higher, and these "humans" would be able to move from climate to climate without a change. Extremely unlikely though, which is why I stick with the more likely idea that we came from something different.

Oh, and as an agnostic in the middle of these religious debates, I'd just like to point out that both [many] Christians and [many] Atheists in the United States are about at the same volume level of annoying. Even though you have your share of Christians which try to spread the word of Jesus every way possible, you would probably at least enjoy their kindness compared to the closed minded atheist which believes that they're better because they are "free thinkers," and that simply because they lack faith, that they have a freedom of obligation which makes them better. Both are barking annoying, but in all honesty, I'd rather hear the story of Jesus healing some guy over someone rambling how "all religion is the cause of problem, and that it's set us back."

By the way, Cript, I did some studying of the Qur'an not too long ago, and it's belief in abortion is about the same as the bibles stance that it is wrong, but that it makes one exception: Under the case that the pregnancy is life threatening to the mother. I'd just like to ask you, as you are a devout Christian and know these kind of things, should that apply as an exception if, for example, Christianity was the official religion and the law of the United States. Just interested in hearing about that. (:

Edited by Athean, 11 August 2006 - 04:00 PM.

[/Max]

Why do you say that? I don't see chimpanzee's starting their own economy.

...you don't see them making tools, art, or creating entire colonies, like the first humans did, either.

The fact is, you don't see them at all.

Edited by M-Xite, 11 August 2006 - 08:17 PM.

[/Max]

*Sighs* Actually I have, multiple times, even the ones they train. I just like hearing you tell me all this crap like your some know it all, kind of entertaining.

I've volunteered at at a primate sanctuary for over 10 years now.

The way they treat their trained ones is rather scary. Expecially when they randomly go crazy and the trainers try to make an excuse for it.

What does that mean? When a chimpanzee screams (or flips out), it's usually because something is wrong. Humans yell when we want the chimpanzee to know something is wrong (aka its being too agressive, etc).



NOW are you done attempting to invalidate my experience with any of these fields?

Edited by M-Xite, 11 August 2006 - 11:11 PM.

[Hawk]

I've volunteered at at a primate sanctuary for over 10 years now.
What does that mean? When a chimpanzee screams (or flips out), it's usually because something is wrong. Humans yell when we want the chimpanzee to know something is wrong (aka its being too agressive, etc).
NOW are you done attempting to invalidate my experience with any of these fields?

You have volunteered there since you were about six? For some reason I doubt that .

[/Max]

You have volunteered there since you were about six? For some reason I doubt that .

If you'd like pictures, I'd be glad to email my mother for her to send me some.



There's a picture that's less than a year old. I was 15 then, but it's the only picture on my new hard drive.

But still, if you guys desire to change the topic and attempt to 'OWN LOLOLOL' me, go ahead. It will get you nowhere.



Back on topic--

In your bible, on which of the seven days (lol) were dinosaurs created?

Edited by M-Xite, 11 August 2006 - 11:26 PM.

[Hawk]

If you'd like pictures, I'd be glad to email my mother for her to send me some.

Nah. I still wont believe you, its completely possible that you went there once or twice and got a few pictures taken with them .

Alias will probably want to see them though.

Ahh, scratch what I said above, Im tired and going to bed. If you think the pictures will help your argument go get them. Otherwise dont bother your mom, they are typically pretty busy.

[/Max]

Nah. I still wont believe you, its completely possible that you went there once or twice and got a few pictures taken with them .

Alias will probably want to see them though.

Ahh, scratch what I said above, Im tired and going to bed. If you think the pictures will help your argument go get them. Otherwise dont bother your mom, they are typically pretty busy.

I have a certificate of over 1,000 volunteer hours I got about 6 years ago.


Is this all you do?

Question if I'm legit or not, yet you don't question any random ideas your preacher tells you?

Does everyone need to brainwash you in order for you to believe something?

Edited by M-Xite, 11 August 2006 - 11:34 PM.

[113]

Now, I will get flamed for quoting this, but still:
Wikipedia

It is thought that humans shared a common ancestor with chimpanzees and gorillas as recently as four to seven million years ago, and that they have about 95 to 99.4[11] percent of their DNA in common with humans, with at least some of the difference occurring in 'junk' DNA. It has even been proposed that troglodytes and paniscus belong with sapiens in the genus Homo, rather than in Pan.

New Scientist

The new study found that 99.4 percent of the most critical DNA sites are identical in the corresponding human and chimp genes. With that close a relationship, the two living chimp species belong in the genus Homo, says Morris Goodman of Wayne State University in Detroit.

The closeness of relationship between chimps and humans has become an important issue outside taxonomy, becoming part of the debate over the use of chimps in laboratory experiments and over their conservation in the wild.

Nature

Here we report the first fossil chimpanzee. These fossils, from the Kapthurin Formation, Kenya, show that representatives of Pan were present in the East African Rift Valley during the Middle Pleistocene, where they were contemporary with an extinct species of Homo.

Now can you at least admit ther is a connection between humans and chimps (or not). But in any case can we move on, now? Because this evolution theories have no connections to homosexsual marriages and/or other rights.

Edited by 113, 11 August 2006 - 11:39 PM.

[/Max]

BAHA!

Sory, i'm going to leave this debate for now, because that's really .. scary.

Yea, nice googlin.

ggnore

peace.

"Googlin?"

The thing is with pictures, you can see the person, and they can take another picture holding a sign proving that it's them.

Now, I will get flamed for quoting this, but still:
Wikipedia
New Scientist
Nature
Now can you at least admit ther is a connection between humans and chimps (or not). But in any case can we move on, now? Because this evolution theories have no connections to homosexsual marriages and/or other rights.

THANK YOU.
<3

Point is--the US lawbook doesn't make you live by the science books, so it definitely should not make you live by the bible.

Edited by M-Xite, 11 August 2006 - 11:46 PM.