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Poll: This is a debate

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Who the bigger hater?

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#1 redlion

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 09:50 PM

Okay, this just happened. Minutes ago. One of my 'friends' on facebook posted a quote from the bible. It was either Proverbs 1:7, or one of the various repeats that biblos showed me [that's right hand side, "Cross References"] such as Proverbs 2.5 or 9.10.

For brevity, it goes: "The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction."

I don't think he used the King James, but that sounds the most unequivocating, which suits my reading of it.

I commented the following:

I'm sorry, I know you post these for christians, but as an atheist, I have to laugh. We don't fear the Lord so much as we fear his minions.

Lots of love Nick, this isn't personal.


Within five minutes he had disappeared from my feed. When I searched his name, he's defriended me, or blocked me, whichever it is. I've never had it happen before, so I don't even know the terminology.

Now I just want to know, who was more in the wrong? Me for insulting his faith, or him for taking it so personally?

P.S.

P.S. the poll exists because I know some of you fucks are lurking, reading this, forming an opinion - but you won't post it. So at least vote.

#2 Mr. Hobo

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 09:52 PM

No poll, I've been deceived

So basically it's implying that if you aren't scared of god you're a fool and you responded with people aren't scared of god, just his minions?
+1 to that. Not much to debate :p

#3 redlion

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 09:54 PM

Wait for my edits niggaaa

#4 Mr. Hobo

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 09:55 PM

Lol, I'll return in 5 minutes then. And hopefully have something productive to say then :p

I think if you left out the 'as an atheist' part he might not have been (as) angry, from what I've read atheists tend to have a reputation of being smug and he probably felt you were condescending? And you probably hit a sore spot

Anyways he shouldn't have taken it so personally. As a rule of thumb if you post something that'll be read by a couple hundred people you should expect some criticism. It's only natural to post ones opinion and I think in the context it was justified, if not to be expected.

+1 for Patrick

Also I think that this forum is biased against religion so you should balance it out by asking this question on a Christian forum :p

#5 Warriors

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 10:39 PM

He couldn't handle someone challenging his beliefs..douchery at its best. I've been "defriended" for supporting to overturn prop 8. It happens, what I say is if they were truly your friends would it have been so easily to just "defriend" you?

But, also, us Atheists/Agnostic/Whatever can be quite the asshole from what I have been told. Maybe a lesson into tone down the rhetoric. But friends always debate and argue..kinda hard to say who is in the wrong.

#6 redlion

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 10:53 PM

Sorry, using this as a copyboard.

Relax, lighten up, don't be afraid to lead the examined life.
None of us was the first here. None of us is the most right.
Know thy enemy as they know themselves,
and know thyself through their eyes as well.
For when we fall with colors pall, and cannot tell the roof from wall,
they say that death will take us all, how could it be

This is for nick.



I was composing this in the facebook 'what's on your mind?' box, but it keeps resizing and shit (horrible programming) and I needed to keep the whole thing. I'm not posting the entirety. Just the middle two lines...

I honestly feel bad :(

#7 Warriors

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 11:14 PM

Hahaha I like the first line..borrowed from the Great Socrates and yet its soo true. "The Unexamined life is not worth living." That's all you need to say.

Just apologize and say you didn't know he would be that affected, but discourse is necessary for growth?

#8 Noitidart

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 11:20 PM

I don't want to say anyone is wrong. Although your post sounded something like a "offensive comment" that had "no offense" tagged on the end. HAHA :p

I think the situation is just funny and not wrong. Emotions in the way for one or the other. I would say be the big man you are and be like "hey baby you know I love you" caress certain body parts etc.

#9 redlion

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 11:28 PM

I don't want to say anyone is wrong. Although your post sounded something like a "offensive comment" that had "no offense" tagged on the end. HAHA :p

I think the situation is just funny and not wrong. Emotions in the way for one or the other. I would say be the big man you are and be like "hey baby you know I love you" caress certain body parts etc.

No doubt, noit, no doubt. You're surprisingly cogent tonight. That's good! I repped you for the bolded section.

#10 iargue

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 01:39 AM

You failed so fucking much.

You said God (Omg, did I capitalize that?) didn't exist, and then said you feared "his minions"

You suck as an atheist. Try a new religion.

#11 carrice

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 01:53 AM

You failed so fucking much.

You said God (Omg, did I capitalize that?) didn't exist, and then said you feared "his minions"

You suck as an atheist. Try a new religion.

Ya i double what iargue said
Find a new religion

Edited by bloomer, 02 December 2010 - 01:54 AM.


#12 Sweeney

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 02:45 AM

You failed so fucking much.

You said God (Omg, did I capitalize that?) didn't exist, and then said you feared "his minions"

You suck as an atheist. Try a new religion.

I'm afraid of some of the minions of religion too... like the ones that shoot doctors, or the ones that blow up tower blocks.
God has minions, regardless of the fact of his non-existence.

You suck as a person. Find a new species.

Ya i double what iargue said
Find a new religion

Also, who the fuck are you to talk so condescendingly? Come back when you can articulate your own opinion.

#13 luvsmyncis

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 07:24 AM

This made me laugh. I don't think either of you is wrong. You do what you gotta do.

I have had people unfriend me in REAL LIFE because of my rude remarks about Jesus/God/Mother Teresa. Years ago, a co-worker was killed by a drunk driver, and I was talking with my good friend and she said, "Well... sometimes God is good." and automatically I responded, "And then sometimes He sucks?" She didn't talk to me for like 2 years. :( And despite her, "PRAISE THE LAWD" for every penny she found on the ground, I liked her. 

But I have never unfriended someone because they are super religious, no matter how obnoxious it makes them, because I understand what it's like to NEED that belief. Not that I believe. But for a while my mom was super religious, watching the 700 Club and Joel Olsteen. (She's insane, I'm sure I've mentioned that before.) And even though a lot of what they say is bullshit, they genuinely make people feel good and give them hope in a dark and retarded world. Some people need that. All I need is a pint of Mint Chocolate Chip ice cream, and I feel just as good as having Jesus in my life.

#14 Frank274

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 07:31 AM

Woohoo! I was the tie breaker :D

#15 Mr. Hobo

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 07:47 AM

Oh wow, this poll went in an unexpected direction

#16 iomega

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 07:51 AM

lol you might want to clarify who said what.
some people may be confusing you for nick...

#17 Faval

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 08:09 AM

I don't think either of you were wrong, you just did what you believed in and no manner of convincing would probably sway your beliefs. Though i have to say blocking/removing you from his friends list is going a little overboard...but maybe he was just saving face in the eyes of his christian friends who also read the comment?

#18 Philly

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 09:47 AM

I didn't read the other opinions. I'm a christian myself but I think Nick was obviously overreacting, especially if you said it wasn't anything personal and obviously a joke. If Nick is really that religious, he should at least have told you so and have a decent conversation with you about what you said. 

#19 luvsmyncis

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 10:49 AM

I didn't read the other opinions. But here's a story about me, me, wonderful me, that I expect everyone else to read.


*unfriend*

#20 Philly

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 11:18 AM

*unfriend*

luckily you weren't my friend, and since - and - = +, i guess we're friends now? love you.

#21 togepi

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 12:22 PM

Lol, butthurt. I have a friend who just told me yesterday story similar to this one. Her boyfriend's little sister is an atheist, despite her entire family being super Christian, and she left a comment on one of her friends Facebook status updates. Instead of the girl just deleting her, she caused this huge uproar of her and her Christian friends posting bible verses to the atheist's wall and saying how much of a disgrace she is. This is all between 12-14 year olds.

#22 Andy

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 04:16 PM

I think you need to become more tolerant of religious people. Sure you're friend might be a religious crazy, but his status update wasn't hurting anyone, and certainly wasn't directed at you. You should have kept your mouth shut instead of going out of your way to confront him.

Billions of people all over the world don't have religious freedom, al-Qaeda has recently extended their jihad to all Christians, your friend has every right to practice his religion as much as he wants. You should be ashamed of yourself. Just as you aren't going around, asking to be converted, he's not going around asking for snide comments on his status updates.

You had no right to do that to him based on his religious beliefs, it's just as bad as being an arse to someone because they're gay or black. Sure sometimes religious people can be a little obnoxious, but you gotta be mature about it.

#23 luvsmyncis

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 06:21 PM

 

Just as you aren't going around, asking to be converted, he's not going around asking for snide comments on his status updates.


Anyone who posts, "If you don't fear the wrath of the almighty God, you are a fool" is just BEGGING for snide comments. 

Edited by punkrockbigmouth, 02 December 2010 - 06:21 PM.


#24 Andy

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 06:34 PM

It's not our responsibility to reform brainwashed people, leave that shit to wizards.

#25 redlion

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 03:18 AM

lol you might want to clarify who said what.
some people may be confusing you for nick...

Yeah... I assumed that people knew my name was Patrick. The only other name I mentioned was Nick, and I addressed him in my quote above. I guess I thought that was clear enough... but hobo voted against me even though his posted opinion was for me :p You all fail at polls :p

I think you need to become more tolerant of religious people. Sure you're friend might be a religious crazy, but his status update wasn't hurting anyone, and certainly wasn't directed at you. You should have kept your mouth shut instead of going out of your way to confront him.

Billions of people all over the world don't have religious freedom, al-Qaeda has recently extended their jihad to all Christians, your friend has every right to practice his religion as much as he wants. You should be ashamed of yourself. Just as you aren't going around, asking to be converted, he's not going around asking for snide comments on his status updates.

You had no right to do that to him based on his religious beliefs, it's just as bad as being an arse to someone because they're gay or black. Sure sometimes religious people can be a little obnoxious, but you gotta be mature about it.

I can appreciate your opinion. You're a dick for trying to tell me how to live, but you do have the right to express yourself, all the same. I grant Nick, myself, and anyone else that same right. As far as his status update... it wasn't hurting anyone, true. But it wasn't going to get a reply either (he was typing into the void). I thought my comment would at least get him to gimme a 'fuck you patrick' or something that would lessen the tension, but instead he escalated.

As far as religious freedom... that's a bullshit supporting argument. He lives in the united states, so do I. Comparing us to Palestinians, N. Koreans or Persians isn't right - our country isn't theocratic, and we're some of the most free people religiously. He isn't an oppressed minority in India dude, he's a white guy who loves jesus.

I had no right to do that to him? It's a public social network... he posts things for his friends to see, and they can comment back, which I did. How have I broken the rules exactly? Let me tell you about rights. I had the right to express my opinion. He had the right to 'defriend' me. Those are the only rights that have been exercised.

How is it mature to lie to someone? How is it immature to stand up for what you believe in? Don't condescend to me. Calling me immature for making a cutting remark is more of a personal attack than I made in the first place.

Making the comment in the first place was my biggest mistake. But should I not defend my beliefs? What sort of American would I be if I wasn't ready to fight at the drop of the hat to preserve liberty, democracy... and atheism? To equivocate now would be to lose all credibility. I'm a debater at heart, I'd never do that :p

Anyone who posts, "If you don't fear the wrath of the almighty God, you are a fool" is just BEGGING for snide comments. 

Thank you for seeing the reality of the situation.

It's not our responsibility to reform brainwashed people, leave that shit to wizards.

This almost makes up for your other post. But not quite.

I actually take it on myself to educate people sometimes. You should try it. It's called teaching. I like to play devil's advocate a lot, because of my interest in the examined life. I take it as a given that people want to know when they're wrong. It's unfortunate that some people would rather stick their heads in the sand, but that doesn't stop me from trying to show them the light.

Saying it isn't our responsibility is a cop out. I make it my responsibility every day. I define my own responsibilities - do you?

You failed so fucking much.

You said God (Omg, did I capitalize that?) didn't exist, and then said you feared "his minions"

You suck as an atheist. Try a new religion.

Maybe you're just trolling and you've laid it on too thick for me to see through it, but I really can't understand you. Like, your post is a non sequitur.

I capitalized God to distinguish between God and god(s). In English, God (capitalized) usually refers to the god of Abraham. Whatever else you may think of me, know that I'm not ignorant of the particulars of the Christian faith.

Perhaps you just couldn't parse what I said. To rephrase:
I don't fear God [because he doesn't exist] but I do fear his minions [because they are people here on earth with me, some of whom exhibit irrational behavior, which scares me]. Does that make my position more clear? Because it's certainly an Atheist position. I'm pretty sure about that.


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