84 replies to this topic

[Frank274]

Common sense will do a better job then any requirement we can ever place on the Trading Post....

Unfortunately common sense has become a super power.

[georgeofthejungle]

Usually the higher the post count = more legit user

Personally I would never trust anyone with a newer join date and low post count....

[zandra]

i would agree that having advance / 100 post users would help with the scamming problem.
but one thing to note is that advance cost around 1.25m neopoints in the conversion rate. that is pretty easy for scammers to scam as most users here are pretty rich.
most items sold e.g draik eggs and various morphing potions are worth alot more then that. a middleman would still be the best option.

[MeWantCookies]

I haven't used the Trading Post, and I don't really have a desire to, but I still have an opinion on the topic. Limiting the Trading Post to any class of users (100+ posts, 1 month, advanced, etc.) will not stop the scamming problem. All it will do is take the responsibility off buyers and sellers to protect themselves.

If you think people complain about being scammed now, imagine how bad it will be when there are requirements to reach the Trading Post. Every time someone gets scammed out of a pet or item, they'll complain that the requirements should be raised. Eventually, the Trading Post will only allow members with over 1000 posts, over 3 active years as a member, and 50 +rep. And even that won't stop all scams!

People should use middlemen, every time. It's the easiest (and the only definite) way to prevent being scammed.

[mysterybat]

I have got scammed for a couple of times

not because I am not willing to use middlemen ,just because when I am going to find middlemen, no middleman is online
those scammers will then pretend to be not patient enough and want to cancel the trade

to make the trade smooth,I have no choice but just trust those shit guys ,and finally got scammed

but since then, if anyone have lower trader score than me and tell me to go first or tell me to find a middleman,I would fuck them directly

Edited by mysterybat, 14 July 2011 - 09:45 AM.

[Elle]

Usually the higher the post count = more legit user

Personally I would never trust anyone with a newer join date and low post count....

Not always. People have stuck around for months in the past just to gain trust and post count, and then scam recklessly. People have come back onto their 2/3/4 year accounts to do the same. Its all happened before.

As much as i hate to agree with Iargue on anything, people just need to use a fucking middleman.

[zandra]

As much as i hate to agree with Iargue on anything, people just need to use a fucking middleman.

QFT.


if anyone get scammed without using a middleman. the scammers gets banned. The only person that should be blamed is yourself for not using a middleman not the regulations to use trading post. seriously the 100 post count wont work. the gains are too high as long as there are people that just don't get that fact.

[Scot]

It's not possible to stop all scamming. The purpose of my proposal is to have some limitation so someone can't register a new account and scam immediately as what has been happening lately. Even a 1 week waiting period and a 25 post requirement would increase the turnaround from 2 minutes, the time it takes to register, to 1 week - a massive improvement. I think 25 posts is an incredibly generous offer that only restrict a small percentage of current users.

Let me bold this part again for people who don't read.

[MeWantCookies]

Let me bold this part again for people who don't read.

But why include a limit at all? A person who joined 12 seconds ago and wants to sell their MSPP shouldn't be denied from going straight to the trading post and advertising their sale as their very first post. Similarly, someone who joined for the sole purpose of buying a draik shouldn't have to wait to find a seller. And if you don't care about the new joinees, what about the current members with high post counts and old join dates? A person who wants to buy an MSPP or sell a draik now has fewer options because potential buyers and sellers are excluded.

It just seems like a middleman can solve the scamming problem even if both the buyer and the seller joined yesterday and each have 1 post. Of course, if the only goal is to protect buyers and sellers who refuse to use a middleman, then you're right, regulating who can see the trading post is the best way to do so.

[Scot]

But why include a limit at all? A person who joined 12 seconds ago and wants to sell their MSPP shouldn't be denied from going straight to the trading post and advertising their sale as their very first post. Similarly, someone who joined for the sole purpose of buying a draik shouldn't have to wait to find a seller. And if you don't care about the new joinees, what about the current members with high post counts and old join dates? A person who wants to buy an MSPP or sell a draik now has fewer options because potential buyers and sellers are excluded.

It just seems like a middleman can solve the scamming problem even if both the buyer and the seller joined yesterday and each have 1 post. Of course, if the only goal is to protect buyers and sellers who refuse to use a middleman, then you're right, regulating who can see the trading post is the best way to do so.

People are idiots and can't be trusted to do the smart thing, therefore the state has to step in and nanny them.

[Sinwin]

But why include a limit at all? A person who joined 12 seconds ago and wants to sell their MSPP shouldn't be denied from going straight to the trading post and advertising their sale as their very first post. Similarly, someone who joined for the sole purpose of buying a draik shouldn't have to wait to find a seller. And if you don't care about the new joinees, what about the current members with high post counts and old join dates? A person who wants to buy an MSPP or sell a draik now has fewer options because potential buyers and sellers are excluded.

It just seems like a middleman can solve the scamming problem even if both the buyer and the seller joined yesterday and each have 1 post. Of course, if the only goal is to protect buyers and sellers who refuse to use a middleman, then you're right, regulating who can see the trading post is the best way to do so.

Putting a limit delays scamming and the frequency of scamming. Since common sense has become uncommon sense, just maybe the limit will make new users think "why they put a limit on trading post" and actually read the sticky and use a middleman...

Edited by Kang, 14 July 2011 - 09:33 AM.

[Nubge]

There's allways scammers, in all the websites that have something about trade! And you have a lot of things that say if you can trust the user or not, like the trader score.. Look at the trader score, look at the feedbacks, and use middlemans..


And I'm also agree with the post of @misterybat #55

I have got scammed for a couple of times

not because I am not willing to use middlemen ,just because when I am going to find middlemen, no middleman is online
those scammers will then pretend to be not patient enough and want to cancel the trade

to make the trade smooth,I have no choice but just those shit guys ,and finally got scammed

but since then, if anyone have lower trader score than me and tell me to go first or tell me to find a middleman,I would fuck them directly

We really need more middlemen to help us, but it seems imposible right now
And about "not patient enogh" traders, if they are not patient to make the trade, the are obviously scammers, because when we want something, we can wait easily


Sorry for the bad english btw, i'm a spanish speaker

[jcrdude]

There have been plenty of people who have been reliable traders without being reliable posters, and there have been posters that have ended up being scammers waiting for a big hit. Putting a post limitation would affect the first group and not affect the second group.

[mysterybat]

There's allways scammers, in all the websites that have something about trade! And you have a lot of things that say if you can trust the user or not, like the trader score.. Look at the trader score, look at the feedbacks, and use middlemans..


And I'm also agree with the post of @misterybat #55



We really need more middlemen to help us, but it seems imposible right now
And about "not patient enogh" traders, if they are not patient to make the trade, the are obviously scammers, because when we want something, we can wait easily


Sorry for the bad english btw, i'm a spanish speaker

but for those members like me (Chinese members), it is impossible for me to find a middleman to help

and being patient also has a limit
it is very difficult to make a trade last for three to four days or even one week ,I think both traders will feel annoyed about that if the trade lasts for too long
and some scammers may even claim that they get offers from others(or even from other sites), so they can't wait for the trade and wait for the middleman

so there are only two choices , trust the one who trade with you, or give up the important trade

I agree that if there are more official middlemen to help all members in different time range,that will be much better

Edited by mysterybat, 14 July 2011 - 09:51 AM.

[Nubge]

but for those members like me (Chinese members), it is impossible for me to find a middleman to help

and being patient also has a limit
it is very difficult to make a trade last for three to four days or even one week ,I think both traders will feel annoyed about that if the trade lasts for too long
and some scammers may even claim that they get offers from others(or even from other sites), so they can't wait for the trade and wait for the middleman

so there are only two choices , trust the one who trade with you, or give up the important trade

I agree that if there are more official middlemen to help all members in different time range,that will be much better

Oh, so go for the trader score, and look about the feedbacks, there's not another solution for the unpatient.

[inima]

Yeh...


Why Scammer like pixels? lol

[Nubge]

There have been plenty of people who have been reliable traders without being reliable posters, and there have been posters that have ended up being scammers waiting for a big hit. Putting a post limitation would affect the first group and not affect the second group.

That's true ^
I've traded with the 'reliable traders without being reliable posters'; but I don't know about the second group, luckily I never got scammed c;

[mysterybat]

Yeh...


Why Scammer like pixels? lol

because they are just like hairs near the penis , with an unlimited amount
ugly and smelly ...nah

[Sinwin]

Yeh...


Why Scammer like pixels? lol

Some people buy these pixels with RL currency so it goes from liking pixels to liking money

[Blackout]

Bob1234 is not a new member dummy.
People like you would just spam to 250.
That would stop 80% of our trades with that number.
Newbies would not get scammed if they took 2 minutes to read on Middlemen.

This is why I am glad I have your posts on ignore.

[MeWantCookies]

Bob1234 is not a new member dummy.

lol, I think he was just using "bob1234" as a hypothetical user without realizing there was a real user by that name.

[Donaldmax]

lol, I think he was just using "bob1234" as a hypothetical user without realizing there was a real user by that name.

lol. Junsu/Rapist did it as a joke. He changed his name to Bob1234 after seeing this

[Glow]

It's a nice idea, but I joined a while ago and I only come on here once in a while, to sell stuff. |D

[InFeeD]

People are idiots and can't be trusted to do the smart thing, therefore the state has to step in and nanny them.

Let's do it the TNT way.



Something had happen:

A friendly blumaroo pass by and said: ALWAYS USE A MIDDLEMEN.
NEVER TRADE WITH ANYONE WITHOUT A MIDDLEMEN OR FULL COLLAT NO MATTER HOW TRUSTED HE CLAIMED TO BE.
NOW REPEAT WITH ME, "I WOULD NEVER TRADE WITH ANYONE WITHOUT A MIDDLEMAN" X3


Stickies this in the trading post and make it as big/obvious/annoying it can be.

Hopefully it would help people get more cautious/skeptical?

[Kyle]

It pretty much comes down to just one thing.

We already have a system in place that reduces scamming by 99.9%. Every single person that has ever been scammed, has refused to use that service. Every single one of them.

We decided to put more effort into reducing scams. We added a Trader Score, so people can see that the person they are about to trade without a middleman, has never traded before.

And yet. I see time and time again. People being scammed by obvious scams, and not using a middleman.

So I ask, Why should we do more work to ensure that people do not get scammed, when they are 100% at fault for being scammed?

Nonetheless, this idea will be brought up and discussed with the Administration, as we continually try to reduce the amount of scammers on our forum, and keep the trading post safe and secure.

I would rather honestly make using a Middleman a requirement, rather then an option.

Last time administration discussed this I was very vocal in my disagreement with a policy of this type through PM with Hydro, and I want to reiterate that opposition.

As you said earlier in this post, a system is in place that reduces scamming to almost nothing. This forum has less scamming than any forum (neo or not) that I'm a part of, many of them much larger than this one. I do transactions through my main account, on an IP address that has never had an account frozen on it. There are hundreds of threads in Neo General Chat asking how to safely transfer NP or items, because presumably that is as risky an activity as ABing itself. I should not be forced to (essentially) double my risk during an already risky process of selling NP. Knowing that there is a middleman system in place, I accept the risk that obviously comes with a transaction of this sort, as do those who I trade with, as I will not use a middle man unless it is a very expensive transaction, which I have yet to be a part of to this point.

A more logical solution would be to join this solution with the current overhaul of rankings taking place, and force middlemen on member-member trades, while allowing advanced-member, or advanced-advanced trades the choice of whether to use a middleman (essentially separate trading sections for different ranks). I feel that this is the lesser of two evils however, and that the system currently in place is the right one.