58 replies to this topic

[Yung]

The question being posed is are humans the current Apex Predators?

Before you ask what an Apex Predator is here is a couple quotes explaining:

An apex predator is an animal who, as an adult, has no natural predators in its ecosystem. The great white shark is an example of an apex predator.

Source: About.com Marine Life

predators that are not preyed upon as healthy adults in the wild. Full scavengers (e.g. most vultures), although they may not be preyed on either, are not counted as apex predators unless they at least partially depend on capturing live prey. Many species listed here are only Apex predators within certain environments, e.g. Coyotes are only apex predators when larger predators such as the Gray Wolf or the Brown Bear are absent.

Source: Wikipedia Partial List of Apex Predators

Essentially an Apex Predator is an animal, or person, that has no natural predator in their given ecosystem.

It is arguable that in a one on one fight an animal, such as a Mountain Lion, will prove dominate to any given human (Enter Chuck Norris/Betty White jokes here). Factor in our numbers, tools, weapons, and upper level intelligence and it is easy to see how we can be considered an Apex Predator if not the Alpha Apex Predator. A one on one match with a Great White Shark doesn't seem fair unless you give the human a Spear Gun then it balances out the situation.

A different thing to consider is should humans be considered Apex Predators in the first place?

Edited by Yung, 16 February 2012 - 09:20 AM.

[Scot]

[Dolly]

[travis]

Looks like someone just saw Chronicle.

[Elindoril]

Looks like someone just saw Chronicle.

Good movie.

[Neoquest]

I would say not. We are naturally meat sacks that pretty much everything can easily kill. I don't think weapons we create should be a factor.

[Ladida]

Essentially an Apex Predator is an animal, or person, that has no natural prey in their given ecosystem.

You're probably going to want to correct that

[yeah]

I think evolution may have created us to be food for everyone else... no fur, no scales, teeth/claws aren't that sharp, raw meat/water is deadly, eyesight not that good. If we were just a little bit dumber or had no thumbs, we probably would've died out or gained cooler adaptations years ago.

[Yung]

You're probably going to want to correct that

Thanks. Silly fail of mine.

[Junsu]

I think evolution may have created us to be food for everyone else... no fur, no scales, teeth/claws aren't that sharp, raw meat/water is deadly, eyesight not that good. If we were just a little bit dumber or had no thumbs, we probably would've died out or gained cooler adaptations years ago.

A bit contradicting there hehe~
Evolution created bigger brains, hands, etc!

And yes we are Apex Predators, but whats the point of establishing this?

[travis]

The definition of an apex predator is an animal who has no natural predators.

Therefore, humans would be an apex predator. Other animals may be able to fuck us up, but they're not actually hunting us. Nothing considers humans prey.

[Random]

I don't know about you guys, but I'm an Apex Predator.
#alphamaleshit

[themaskedmongoose]

I would say not. We are naturally meat sacks that pretty much everything can easily kill. I don't think weapons we create should be a factor.

I would disagree with that, I think weapons has EVERYTHING to do with us being the Apex Predator, what our advantage is, is the ability to plan ahead and prepare for an encounter that we would surely lose what with our puny amount of hitpoints.

[redlion]

I would say not. We are naturally meat sacks that pretty much everything can easily kill. I don't think weapons we create should be a factor.

While I agree that weapons should not be a factor, the intelligence that created those weapons should be included. Greater intelligence is an evolution that greatly benefits all animals, and humans are particularly well served by it.

Nothing considers humans prey.

This isn't, strictly speaking, accurate. There are plenty of animals that will eat us if they're hungry enough. Lions and other large cats, sharks of many species (although they aren't in our native ecosystem), hyenas would take down a wounded human (although their MO is to prey on wounded, weakened or carrion prey) to name a few.

We might not have many predators that actively seek us out, but given a shortage of easier prey, there are plenty of species that will go after a human.

[CJames]

Humans advantage is their higher level of intelligence.. If considering 1 v 1 situation... its not fair to conveniently equip the human with all the weapons he can think of... it should be an even playing field when the human have to use his brain to outwit his opponent and create whatever weapon he can make use of from his surrounding... if they could bring weapons along in a 1 v 1 fight.. why not just drive in an armoured vehicle equipped with all sorts of guns and grenade and whatever weird contraptions human have created...

It sounds stupid.. but then again.. this whole topic is actually stupid to begin with....

[Waser Lave]

Therefore, humans would be an apex predator. Other animals may be able to fuck us up, but they're not actually hunting us. Nothing considers humans prey.

Never seen Jaws? We are only an apex predator when we have technology available otherwise we're pretty much useless against other apex predators like bears, lions, tigers, sharks and wombats.

[NapisaurusRex]

I think some people have it and some people don't. Being at the top of the food chain requires an ability to stay at the top of the food chain. Some people can/will kill to maintain that position. or the of prestige associated with the position, even if they don't live to see it.

[Sweeney]

We're not predators, so we're not apex predators.

[Nymh]

Hee hee Scot gives this look a lot

But for the discussion, I disagree that humans are not predators. Predation insinuates hunting and killing food, which we have done for millennia. Though we are mostly an agrarian society now, there is still an aspect of hunting in our culture - albeit with weapons for the most part, I do have an uncle that hunts wild boar with his bare hands, and a friend who has killed a deer with a rock (yes, both animals were eaten; yes I have to hear the stories every time I see them).

Even with our superior intellect, however, we would still be considered prey to some animals (or perhaps "easy targets" is a more appropriate term). So no, I don't believe we are apex predators.

Edited by nymh, 16 February 2012 - 06:14 AM.

[Sweeney]

But for the discussion, I disagree that humans are not predators. Predation insinuates hunting and killing food, which we have done for millennia. Though we are mostly an agrarian society now, there is still an aspect of hunting in our culture - albeit with weapons for the most part, I do have an uncle that hunts wild boar with his bare hands, and a friend who has killed a deer with a rock (yes, both animals were eaten; yes I have to hear the stories every time I see them).

Even with our superior intellect, however, we would still be considered prey to some animals (or perhaps "easy targets" is a more appropriate term). So no, I don't believe we are apex predators.

We may have been predators for a long time past, although dental evidence doesn't generally support this; our teeth indicate a fruit-based gathering lifestyle, but this is irrelevant. We're clearly not living a predatory lifestyle now. Even those people who hunt don't exist solely on their kills.

[Nymh]

Even those people who hunt don't exist solely on their kills.

Well, for that matter neither do bears - they eat a wide variety of foods from nuts and berries to horses and livestock. Though bears are not particularly sneaky, they are quite powerful and do kill and eat other animals for a portion of their diet. Would they likewise not be considered predators?

[Lasciel]

We are definitely not apex predators, or even predators, really. In our ecosystem, though not in (most of) our current environments, we have many, many natural predators. Whether they would be successful in eating us is another issue, but there's no doubt we are their prey. I'd say even hunting does not quite count as predatory, like what Sweeney said about not relying solely on kills. The term predator as is probably understood generally, tends to refer to the animal group for which a particular prey makes up the bulk of the diet, or at least, the animal group that would be most affected by the loss of a particular prey. I don't think we fall into that category.

[Kauvara]

Crocodiles, lions, tigers, wolves....they all fuck our shit up. Without our technology we are helpless against them.
Do you ever see people hunting predatory animals without weapons? Like, a man strangling a bear to death or something? Idk about you, but I definitely haven't.
You *might* be able to outsmart them sometimes, but you're definitely not out running or overpowering any of them.


I'm not saying these animals are more intelligent than us, but they are built and hard-wired to kill. Humans...not so much.

Sure they don't come after us in the modern world but in my opinion, this is only because of our technology. Our brains are definately an advantage, but only to a point.
Imagine a primitive world in which we had no houses....no protection whatsoever. No fire to keep predators at bay......what do you think they would do?

Edited by Jabberwock, 16 February 2012 - 07:47 AM.

[Waser Lave]

Do you ever see people hunting predatory animals without weapons? Like, a man strangling a bear to death or something? Idk about you, but I definitely haven't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVS1UfCfxlU

[HanVan]

"The great white shark is an example of an apex predator."

I am sure I have seen a group of killer whales hunting and killing a great white.

They did the flip trick, where the shark goes into that trance thing.

I can't find the actual video, but i do remember seeing it.