203 replies to this topic

[Sweeney]

It was unnecessary Sweeney. There is no need for you to be a jerk to Yung for ANY reason. There is NO reason to be hostile in any situation. It doesn't just mean new members, it's any members. If you want an example I'll give you my thread that I made a while back that you chewed me up for just because YOU thought it was a pointless topic. That was unnecessary and not the way you should treat members of a forum. Everyone has a right to post whatever they want as long as it is within the rules of the site. The point that I was bumping it is another issue which I take full responsibility for and see my wrong in, but you did not need to tear my topic down just because you didn't like it. That is what discourages members from making posts and threads. And if you don't see that you do that, then there's no point in you arguing about it because you obviously don't think anything you do is ever wrong.

I'm totally bemused that you can sit there and legitimately type out a full paragraph that says you're allowed to post what you want, no matter who finds it annoying, but I'm not allowed to do that, because you find it annoying.
Fascinating.

More like the idea of "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all"

Why did you remove the part of the post where I said I thought it was a good idea?

[Bone]

More like the idea of "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all"

That would reduce activity to a standstill.

In all seriousness, I don't get why people want everything/everyone to be so nice and cuddly for new members. You'd only be delaying the inevitable and hiding reality.

[EveMazing]

I'm totally bemused that you can sit there and legitimately type out a full paragraph that says you're allowed to post what you want, no matter who finds it annoying, but I'm not allowed to do that, because you find it annoying.
Fascinating.

That is not at all what I did but good job twisting shit around to make yourself look like you're right.
I don't find it annoying.
Bottom line, hostility is unnecessary and that's the problem. The problem was brought up, I suggested a reason and a solution, and you attempted to tear me down in the process. It's not helping the problem, it's continueing it.

[Mishatu]

Why did you remove the part of the post where I said I thought it was a good idea?

Primarily because I didn't have anything applicable to say about the "Welcoming Committee".

[ShadowLink64]

I wonder if a newbie hangout section would work, segregating them from our grumpier members.

That's actually a wonderful idea. Make it so that people over a certain post count and longevity CAN'T post in there. xD

[Adam]

Truthfully, if you think that was a hostile comment, you might be better off sticking to Gaia Online, or maybe Webkinz.
(Psst. That was a hostile comment. Although also accurate.)

Seriously, though, could you do me a huge favour and find a thread where you think I've been hostile to a new member unnecessarily?

Maybe newer members have seen older and more 'mature' members including, but not limited to, yourself being ridiculously mean and belligerent. Seeing such postings might deter those newer members from posting. Who wants to walk in somewhere new, put themselves out there and be instantly judged or ridiculed. I personally feel that many members opinions aren't as respected as they should be. There seems to be a general hostility towards people not in the older members clique, especially when it comes to being asked your opinion about a given subject.

Edit: Eve I'm not sure Sweeney was being quite as hostile as you think. I've seen him be much less sensitive to someones thoughts. Sometimes deserved, and sometimes not.

Edited by Adam, 09 May 2012 - 11:15 AM.

[EveMazing]

Maybe newer members have seen older and more 'mature' members including, but not limited to, yourself being ridiculously mean and belligerent. Seeing such postings might deter those newer members from posting. Who wants to walk in somewhere new, put themselves out there and be instantly judged or ridiculed. I personally feel that many members opinions aren't as respected as they should be. There seems to be a general hostility towards people not in the older members clique, especially when it comes to being asked your opinion about a given subject.

I wanted to +1 rep this but I'm out for today, so.... yeah

[Sweeney]

That is not at all what I did but good job twisting shit around to make yourself look like you're right.
I don't find it annoying.
Bottom line, hostility is unnecessary and that's the problem. The problem was brought up, I suggested a reason and a solution, and you attempted to tear me down in the process. It's not helping the problem, it's continueing it.

I'm not "tearing you down"!?
I haven't been rude. I haven't made personal comments.
I think the problem is more to do with how you percieve my attitude, than the actual contents of my posts in this thread.

[Bone]

That is not at all what I did but good job twisting shit around to make yourself look like you're right.
I don't find it annoying.
Bottom line, hostility is unnecessary and that's the problem. The problem was brought up, I suggested a reason and a solution, and you attempted to tear me down in the process. It's not helping the problem, it's continueing it.

Erm...I promised I wouldn't get involved in this, but why would you continue firing back if you think he's being unnecessarily hostile? It only makes things worse and stifles discourse.

Anyways, you didn't really specify the problem, even after multiple people asked you to.

[Sweeney]

Maybe newer members have seen older and more 'mature' members including, but not limited to, yourself being ridiculously mean and belligerent. Seeing such postings might deter those newer members from posting. Who wants to walk in somewhere new, put themselves out there and be instantly judged or ridiculed. I personally feel that many members opinions aren't as respected as they should be. There seems to be a general hostility towards people not in the older members clique, especially when it comes to being asked your opinion about a given subject.

To be honest, I question the value of members that don't believe their own opinion is worth making an effort to express. What can they contribute to any discussion, if they're not willing to expose their ideas to other people?

That said, there are members who are indiscriminately rude, and I think that I set a bad example in that respect. People seem to believe that I gallivant about, shooting down every original thought in a flurry of criticism and witticism. That really isn't the case.

[ShadowLink64]

I tell you something, if there's one thing that people hate, it's faux-subtle references to wanting to be ranked up.

This may have actually been meant to be a helpful statement.... which could have also been said in a PM, mind you, but it was nonetheless a true statement. People do not see favourably on people who do this. But, it brought undue (potentially harmful) attention onto Yung in a public environment, and perhaps that's the unnecessary part of all this.

I've seen this happen on another occasion too, so I know Sweeney's not saying this to be a total jackass. Perhaps this was one of those things that should have been left to PM though?

The only reason I'm giving this attention is because it's outlining this "hostility" thing that people are talking about and it's bringing about good discussion.

[Galadriel]

Everyone who is on their period needs to chill the fuck out.

[Ladida]

A main reason no one posts now is because access to abrosia is so easy. With post requirements it made the users who were interested in gaining more access to the program required to post in general threads. Since those posts were monitored it meant you had to put some decent level of thought into them. Then by the time you had 50,100,etc. you were actually interested in the forums and knew other members.

I thought we still have the post requirement? The only difference is you don't automatically become Advanced+ after hitting ~500 posts, you need to be nominated and voted in.

[shrouded]

I thought we still have the post requirement? The only difference is you don't automatically become Advanced+ after hitting ~500 posts, you need to be nominated and voted in.

You can get voted into advanced with less than 500. I just think the issue is people can register and buy advanced and they know they don't need to actively participate. They can have access to whatever they really want without having to participate on the forum. I often see advanced members with 3-20 posts on the status feed and trading forum. Since no one NEEDS to participate anymore it leaves the forum down to the core group of members who code, do graphics, are on staff, and those who actually want to be on the forum. Since the forum is primarily a neopets cheating forum a bulk of the members are here for programs and don't see the need to become an active contributor.

[iargue]

The biggest issue with getting people to change and be less hostile is that they don't believe they are actually doing it. For instance, this thread is an example of Sweeney being hostile to others standards, but not to his own standards. He thinks he is just being normal, and hes done nothing that should be forbidden, while others disagree.

I'm at fault of this myself. I enjoy arguing with people because it shows their point of view better then if they just say a small bit of it. I make great strides to reduce the amount of arguing that I do to try and better myself as a person, but its hard to continue to do so when I read something someone said and I instantly think "I wonder how they would defend their argument if I countered with this"

The bottom line is that the members that are hostile to others, don't actually see themselves as being hostile. This makes it very hard to set a standard for people to follow, as they believe in their mind that they are following this standard.

Also new members are commonly guilty of the same attitude as well. Especially people who post minimal amount of information possible but demand instant help. If hostilities are to be eliminated, those people would have to go as well.

[shrouded]

The biggest issue with getting people to change and be less hostile is that they don't believe they are actually doing it. For instance, this thread is an example of Sweeney being hostile to others standards, but not to his own standards. He thinks he is just being normal, and hes done nothing that should be forbidden, while others disagree.

I'm at fault of this myself. I enjoy arguing with people because it shows their point of view better then if they just say a small bit of it. I make great strides to reduce the amount of arguing that I do to try and better myself as a person, but its hard to continue to do so when I read something someone said and I instantly think "I wonder how they would defend their argument if I countered with this"

The bottom line is that the members that are hostile to others, don't actually see themselves as being hostile. This makes it very hard to set a standard for people to follow, as they believe in their mind that they are following this standard.

Also new members are commonly guilty of the same attitude as well. Especially people who post minimal amount of information possible but demand instant help. If hostilities are to be eliminated, those people would have to go as well.

Add debate section;raging problem solved.

[Waser Lave]

You can get voted into advanced with less than 500. I just think the issue is people can register and buy advanced and they know they don't need to actively participate. They can have access to whatever they really want without having to participate on the forum. I often see advanced members with 3-20 posts on the status feed and trading forum. Since no one NEEDS to participate anymore it leaves the forum down to the core group of members who code, do graphics, are on staff, and those who actually want to be on the forum. Since the forum is primarily a neopets cheating forum a bulk of the members are here for programs and don't see the need to become an active contributor.

If those people didn't purchase a subscription and were forced to make posts their posts would likely be borderline spam and then you'd also be complaining about that (along with many other people).

[Mishatu]

Add debate section;raging problem solved.

Hey, wait a second.... lol

[Nymh]

I concur that on occasion there are people who are unnecessarily hostile and rude to other members. But I also think that it is worth pointing out that there are just as many members who are butthurt little pussies whenever anyone posts in disagreement with them.

[Sweeney]

The biggest issue with getting people to change and be less hostile is that they don't believe they are actually doing it. For instance, this thread is an example of Sweeney being hostile to others standards, but not to his own standards. He thinks he is just being normal, and hes done nothing that should be forbidden, while others disagree.

No.
Hostility is intentional. I'm not being hostile, because I'm not intending hostility.
(And I most certainly don't think I'm being normal. God forbid.)

[ShadowLink64]

Everyone who is on their period needs to chill the fuck out.

Speaking of hostility...

Add debate section;raging problem solved.

There is one.

If those people didn't purchase a subscription and were forced to make posts their posts would likely be borderline spam and then you'd also be complaining about that (along with many other people).

Yep. Even when we set it to 500, we had some very annoying people pop up. This nomination thing is a lot easier, because there's enough Adv+ to be able to spot out new potentials and suggest them. We're promoting a fair number in I think, last time I checked.

No.
Hostility is intentional. I'm not being hostile, because I'm not intending hostility.
(And I most certainly don't think I'm being normal. God forbid.)

Normal is quite boring. Strive to be exceptional.

[shrouded]

If those people didn't purchase a subscription and were forced to make posts their posts would likely be borderline spam and then you'd also be complaining about that (along with many other people).

I don't know. I've seen on other forums were if post requirements are between a point that is obtainable in a few days and a point obtainable in a few weeks members are less likely to just spam up to the requirement. I don't think advanced should have a post requirement but I think there should be some level between normal members and advanced. That way they new members can get a refresh rate and/or buy times a little lower.



Edit: Good golly miss molly 7 years as a member and I just discovered the debate section.

Edited by Shrouded, 09 May 2012 - 11:33 AM.

[Dazz]

Partly, but not entirely. The site was more active back then, community-wise. There was more fun. There was a far greater amount of interesting things going on.
There were problems, sure. But they were engaging issues, not disheartening problems.

To be honest I think the main reason it was buzzing back then was cause we were all young so we wouldn't even think before we posted. Threads back then were like just a big group msn convo . The threads would start out as a serious thread then get so off topic that it was just people chatting casuall. Ali, Kim and Matt are the ones that come to mind for offtopicness . Now shit is too srs business.

Btw I've only read the first 2 pages of this thread so my bad if this has already been said or sumit.

[ShadowLink64]

To be honest I think the main reason it was buzzing back then was cause we were all young so we wouldn't even think before we posted. Threads back then were like just a big group msn convo . The threads would start out as a serious thread then get so off topic that it was just people chatting casuall. Ali, Kim and Matt are the ones that come to mind for offtopicness . Now shit is too srs business.

Btw I've only read the first 2 pages of this thread so my bad if this has already been said or sumit.

I think you're right. I definitely remember that... and because the off-topicness would be so engaging to the people already in the topic, no one would want to leave. Everyone would just keep adding to the off-topicness.

Perhaps srsness is overrated. I rarely complain to people that they're off-topic just because I've lived through this stage of Neocodex I think, and many luls were had. The only time it's not fun is when the original poster gets mad.

[Sweeney]

Off-topic only applies in Debate, really. I don't think I've ever told anyone to get "back on topic" outside of there... I could be wrong, though.

And Darren, we weren't all six when we joined, you know