107 replies to this topic

[luvsmyncis]

Somehow they've also managed to make a large proportion of the people who would benefit from a nationalised system turn against the concept because it would be too 'socialist'...I find that impressive and horrifying in equal measure.

Let's not even get into America's lack of interest in improving education.
As far as we're concerned, the stupider we are, the better.

[WharfRat]

So I said law school when I meant med school, sue me.

For your points.

3)Those are all taxes that you speak of. We are paying the government, not a third party corporation. They name it something else, but its a tax, used to provide a service by the government.
4) Drugs harm other people. Deny it all you want, but there are enough drug related deaths to justify their ban. The millions of people who have lost loved ones to drugs will agree completely. Even if you grow it for personal use, and only smoke it yourself, you still pose a danger to others.

So because drugs can cause harm to the people who CHOOSE to take them via their own free will then they should be made illegal and anyone who wishes to imbibe shall be punished. That's constitutional to you? Okay.... Well, let's use your own logic then. The millions of people who have lost loved ones because they were unable to get adequate medical treatment due to poverty or those who have died due to uncovered pre-existing conditions will agree with the healthcare law completely. Just because you don't want something doesn't mean it is unconstitutional.

@PRBM So true. The American education system is very obviously for profit as well. Now most of the people I know with just a bachelors degree are working retail because they can't find work in their fields and no one will hire them for a lower position as they feel that they are overqualified. Now some of these people have $100k+ in debt and are working for a little over $7.25/hr to try to make a living and pay it back in hopes that they will be able to work in their field sometime into the future. I'm all for the benefits of a free market system, but I think that Healthcare and Education are two markets that should not be for profit.

/rant

[ElBastardoVerde]

4) Drugs harm other people. Deny it all you want, but there are enough drug related deaths to justify their ban. The millions of people who have lost loved ones to drugs will agree completely. Even if you grow it for personal use, and only smoke it yourself, you still pose a danger to others.

That's not really a fair statement. Cigarettes WILL kill you, there's no getting around it, and they're still completely legal provided you're 18. How can a product that has no health benefits and has been shown time and time again to be lethal, be legal? Marijuana has some medicinal properties and last time I checked it wasn't exactly a dangerous "drug", it grows naturally on planet Earth, it's an herb.

[iargue]

So because drugs can cause harm to the people who CHOOSE to take them via their own free will then they should be made illegal and anyone who wishes to imbibe shall be punished. That's constitutional to you? Okay.... Well, let's use your own logic then. The millions of people who have lost loved ones because they were unable to get adequate medical treatment due to poverty or those who have died due to uncovered pre-existing conditions will agree with the healthcare law completely. Just because you don't want something doesn't mean it is unconstitutional.

You completely and utterly ignored and missed my statement in the last post. Drugs kill OTHERS. Not just the people who take the drugs, but the hundreds of thousands who drive while on drugs every year. The thousands that do stupid things that get themselves killed. The hundreds of thousands of people who entice others to do drugs with them and then cause them to OD. Drugs do not kill just the people that take them, they have a negative affect on thousands of people. While you may be smart enough to take the drug and stay at home, millions of others will not do that. when opium was legal in hundreds of countries, millions of people died from the opium wars, and from people attempting to control who has the opium.

I'm tired of having this argument with you though, you will always and forever be for legalizing drugs because you believe that it is a good thing, despite evidence from that past that suggestions its only a negative thing. You forget that drugs used to be perfectly legal, until the death rate go so most civilized nations outlaws drugs completely to try and combat this. Continue to believe that drugs should be legal and the government is fucking us all over with the drug policy, but there is plenty of evidence that supports that drugs affects others as well as the taken, and thus its safe to pass laws regarding them.

And you are a million times wrong about everyone who is poor being happy about this bill. I'm extremely pissed about this bill and I'm certainly not rich or even middle class yet. I'm a student who works part time and goes to school the rest, who has rent, car, car insurance, food, and student bills to pay. I'm completely covered by all of my medical expenses by my native american tribe, and yet I am forced to pick up another medical insurance that will cost me almost a thousand dollars a year for no reason at all. Do you really think that's fair? I agree with everything else in the bill, but this stupid mandate just isn't fair at all. People who live below the poverty line CANNOT give up hundreds more a year in insurance.

That's not really a fair statement. Cigarettes WILL kill you, there's no getting around it, and they're still completely legal provided you're 18. How can a product that has no health benefits and has been shown time and time again to be lethal, be legal? Marijuana has some medicinal properties and last time I checked it wasn't exactly a dangerous "drug", it grows naturally on planet Earth, it's an herb.

You ignored my point as well. DRUGS KILL OTHERS. Cigarettes kill you (They may kill others, but the tobacco company suppresses those stats like a pro). There is no danger if you go home and smoke and then drive. You won't be at any more of a risk of killing others. As such, they follow the principle of "Do what you want with yourself, but don't harm others".Ciggarettes should be illegal just the same, but that may not happen for hundreds of years. As it stands though, it does not pose another risk to humans as long as we do things correctly. We outlaw smoking in public places in case second hand smoke is a danger. But they are free to do it on their own time. If you smoke marijuana and drive you pose a risk of killing another person due to your slowed reflexes (Of course, you will fight me on that. Just like drunk drivers say "I'm a better driver when drunk")

[ElBastardoVerde]

If you smoke marijuana and drive you pose a risk of killing another person due to your slowed reflexes (Of course, you will fight me on that. Just like drunk drivers say "I'm a better driver when drunk")

I'm not gonna fight you on it, you're correct in your statement. Driving/doing anything dangerous while under any kind of influence is stupid and can be potentially dangerous,

[luvsmyncis]

Cigarettes WILL kill you, there's no getting around it.

Unless I get murdered first, or die in child birth, or commit suicide, or go into diabetic shock, or contract AIDS, or succumb to Toxic Shock Syndrome, or get hit by a bus, or die from a meningitis infection, or have a stress related aneurysm, or get bit by a rabid dog. Cigarettes are bad for you, but not everyone who smokes dies from smoke related illnesses.

So because drugs can cause harm to the people who CHOOSE to take them via their own free will then they should be made illegal and anyone who wishes to imbibe shall be punished.

Yes, because they have the potential to harm innocent people.
And the most important thing is to protect the public. This is why anyone who is ever prescribed any sort of medication is strictly forbidden to ever drive as long as the medication is active in their body. Afterall, all medications cause a change in the body, and have the potential for serious side effects like AZITHROMYCIN, a common antibiotic which has possible side effects including headache, nausea, swelling of the mouth, face, lips, throat, or tongue; unusual hoarseness; wheezing, bloody or watery stools; changes in hearing or hearing loss; chest pain; eye or vision problems; irregular heartbeat; mouth sores; muscle weakness; pain or inflammation at the injection site; pounding in the chest; red, swollen, blistered, or peeling skin; ringing in the ears; seizure; severe dizziness; severe or persistent diarrhea; stomach cramps or pain; symptoms of liver problems (eg, yellowing of the skin or eyes; dark urine; pale stools; severe or persistent nausea, vomiting, or loss of appetite; unusual itching); trouble speaking or swallowing; unusual vaginal itching, odor, or discharge.
I certainly don't want someone taking this medication driving out on the road.

[ElBastardoVerde]

Unless I get murdered first, or die in child birth, or commit suicide, or go into diabetic shock, or contract AIDS, or succumb to Toxic Shock Syndrome, or get hit by a bus, or die from a meningitis infection, or have a stress related aneurysm, or get bit by a rabid dog. Cigarettes are bad for you, but not everyone who smokes dies from smoke related illnesses.

Well duh -.- Just because you smoke cigarettes doesn't mean that's what is gonna kill you, anything can happen. I was simply saying that smoking cigarettes greatly reduces your life expectancy because of all of the terrible diseases you can develop because of them. Even second hand smoke can give you cancer. And now there's 3rd hand smoke! We're all in trouble.