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Which of these would be considered cheating?

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#76 Mishelle

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:10 AM

That definition is flawed. It doesn't make any sense.

 

How can you define an affair by the effect it has on the third party?

Am I having an emotional affair if my SO doesn't like it when I cuddle my female friends? How about my male friends? What about holding hands with my female friends? What about texting my female friends once a day? What about sending my female friends a birthday card once a year? What about attending a female friend's funeral? What if my relationship with my mother causes an emotional divide between me and my SO? What if my relationship with video games drives an emotional divide between me and my SO?

 

At what point does it stop becoming an affair, and start becoming another issue? Or entirely unreasonable for my SO to be affected?

 

The reason I'm arguing your definition is because it's meaningless.



 

Too slow.

 

 

Characteristics of an emotional affair

This type of affair is often characterized by:

  • Inappropriate emotional intimacy. The partner being unfaithful may spend inappropriate or excessive time with someone of the opposite or same gender (time not shared with the other partner). He or she may confide more in their new “friend” than in their partner and may share more intimate emotional feelings and secrets with their new partner than with their existing spouse. Any time that an individual invests more emotionally into a relationship with someone besides their partner the existing partnership may suffer.
  • Deception and secrecy. Those involved may not tell their partners about the amount of time they spend with each other. An individual involved in this type of affair may, for example, tell his or her spouse that they are doing other activities when they are really meeting with someone else. Or the unfaithful spouse may exclude any mention of the other person while discussing the day’s activities to conceal the rendezvous. Even if no physical intimacy occurs, the deception clearly shows that those involved believe they are doing something wrong that undermines the existing relationship. In other words, if there was really no harm in meeting with a friend, both parties would feel comfortable telling their partners the truth about where they are meeting and what they are discussing.
  • Increased fighting. When a person becomes emotionally involved with a third party, they will almost without fail begin to discount their primary partner, if not view the new person as all good and their committed partner as all bad. This person may blame their interest in the third party on their committed partner, which will lead to increased fighting and strain on the relationship.
  • An emotional triangle -one that may only be known to the unfaithful, who then struggles to keep the other two from knowing of the impact of one upon the other. Denial will likely characterize the unfaithful person's response to an invitation by their spouse to reflect on the competing demands of the relationship with the other person.
  • Sexual and emotional chemistry. Sexual and emotional chemistry can present itself based on a physical attraction one might feel for another person. In addition, it can also be related to an increase in dopamine, a hormone that produces feelings of pleasure, and norepinephrine, which is similar to adrenaline and causes an increase in excitement. This may or may not lead to physical intimacy, however, if nurtured it may present itself. The time between the first meeting and a first kiss can often be very lengthy, but the time between the first kiss and sexual intercourse may be very short. In most of these affairs, however, an unspoken attraction exists. A partner may spend extra time getting ready before seeing this "friend" or may buy new clothing or change their appearance to seem attractive to them. They may obsess anticipating phone calls, emails or text messages.[8]
  • Denial. Denial of the presence of sexual behaviorsexuality or even of an atom of limerence. "Limerence is an involuntary cognitive and emotional state in which a person feels an intense romantic desire for another person. It is characterized by intrusive thinking and pronounced sensitivity to external events that reflect the disposition of the limerent object towards the individual." This denial can be exhibited by the cheating partner and/or the partner being cheated on, especially if the partner cheated on is male. If the cheating partner accepts that the element of sexual attraction exists, however, and physical contact starts, it can cause the current relationship to start collapsing.


#77 Sweeney

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:23 AM

Characteristics of an emotional affair

This type of affair is often characterized by:

  • Inappropriate emotional intimacy. The partner being unfaithful may spend inappropriate or excessive time with someone of the opposite or same gender (time not shared with the other partner). He or she may confide more in their new “friend” than in their partner and may share more intimate emotional feelings and secrets with their new partner than with their existing spouse. Any time that an individual invests more emotionally into a relationship with someone besides their partner the existing partnership may suffer.

  • Deception and secrecy. Those involved may not tell their partners about the amount of time they spend with each other. An individual involved in this type of affair may, for example, tell his or her spouse that they are doing other activities when they are really meeting with someone else. Or the unfaithful spouse may exclude any mention of the other person while discussing the day’s activities to conceal the rendezvous. Even if no physical intimacy occurs, the deception clearly shows that those involved believe they are doing something wrong that undermines the existing relationship. In other words, if there was really no harm in meeting with a friend, both parties would feel comfortable telling their partners the truth about where they are meeting and what they are discussing.

  • Increased fighting. When a person becomes emotionally involved with a third party, they will almost without fail begin to discount their primary partner, if not view the new person as all good and their committed partner as all bad. This person may blame their interest in the third party on their committed partner, which will lead to increased fighting and strain on the relationship.

  • An emotional triangle -one that may only be known to the unfaithful, who then struggles to keep the other two from knowing of the impact of one upon the other. Denial will likely characterize the unfaithful person's response to an invitation by their spouse to reflect on the competing demands of the relationship with the other person.

  • Sexual and emotional chemistry. Sexual and emotional chemistry can present itself based on a physical attraction one might feel for another person. In addition, it can also be related to an increase in dopamine, a hormone that produces feelings of pleasure, and norepinephrine, which is similar to adrenaline and causes an increase in excitement. This may or may not lead to physical intimacy, however, if nurtured it may present itself. The time between the first meeting and a first kiss can often be very lengthy, but the time between the first kiss and sexual intercourse may be very short. In most of these affairs, however, an unspoken attraction exists. A partner may spend extra time getting ready before seeing this "friend" or may buy new clothing or change their appearance to seem attractive to them. They may obsess anticipating phone calls, emails or text messages.[8]

  • Denial. Denial of the presence of sexual behaviorsexuality or even of an atom of limerence. "Limerence is an involuntary cognitive and emotional state in which a person feels an intense romantic desire for another person. It is characterized by intrusive thinking and pronounced sensitivity to external events that reflect the disposition of the limerent object towards the individual." This denial can be exhibited by the cheating partner and/or the partner being cheated on, especially if the partner cheated on is male. If the cheating partner accepts that the element of sexual attraction exists, however, and physical contact starts, it can cause the current relationship to start collapsing.

 

 

Thank you for the copy-paste from Wikipedia. I already read that when you quoted from it the first time.

I'm not sure that you actually read those, though, since they seem to support my take on an "emotional affair" more than yours:

 

  • Inappropriate emotional intimacy - the level of intimacy is not possible to gauge from the outside. You can only guess at the feelings one person has for another, unless they tell you. This has nothing to do with the effect on the faithful partner.
  • Deception and secrecy - again, a reflection of the unfaithful partner's feelings towards the legitimacy of their interactions. Nothing to do with the effect on the faithful partner.
  • Increased fighting - this is the only one that really refers to the effect on the faithful partner.
  • An emotional triangle - again, only to do with the unfaithful partner struggling to deal with their own deception. If there is no deception, there is no triangle. Nothing to do with the effect on the faithful partner.
  • Sexual and emotional chemistry - again, something an outsider can only guess at. Besides which, "emotional chemistry" is an outrageously vague term. I have some level of emotional chemistry with all my friends, or else we wouldn't be friends... Nothing to do with the effect on the faithful partner.
  • Denial - is stupid. If nothing is there, the person will deny its presence. This bullet presupposes an illicit relationship; it is not an indicator of one. And again, is nothing to do with the effect on the faithful partner.


#78 Romy

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:24 AM

I repeat; why would it?

 

*sigh*



#79 Sweeney

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:25 AM

*sigh*

 

Are you not able to answer?



#80 Romy

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:26 AM

Are you not able to answer?

 

Guess not..



#81 Sweeney

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:28 AM

Guess not..

 

Oh. Well, that's a little disappointing.

 

Would it bother you if you saw Chappy holding hands with a male friend of hers?



#82 Mishelle

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:30 AM

Thank you for the copy-paste from Wikipedia. I already read that when you quoted from it the first time.

I'm not sure that you actually read those, though, since they seem to support my take on an "emotional affair" more than yours:

 

  • Inappropriate emotional intimacy - the level of intimacy is not possible to gauge from the outside. You can only guess at the feelings one person has for another, unless they tell you. This has nothing to do with the effect on the faithful partner.
  • Deception and secrecy - again, a reflection of the unfaithful partner's feelings towards the legitimacy of their interactions. Nothing to do with the effect on the faithful partner.
  • Increased fighting - this is the only one that really refers to the effect on the faithful partner.
  • An emotional triangle - again, only to do with the unfaithful partner struggling to deal with their own deception. If there is no deception, there is no triangle. Nothing to do with the effect on the faithful partner.
  • Sexual and emotional chemistry - again, something an outsider can only guess at. Besides which, "emotional chemistry" is an outrageously vague term. I have some level of emotional chemistry with all my friends, or else we wouldn't be friends... Nothing to do with the effect on the faithful partner.
  • Denial - is stupid. If nothing is there, the person will deny its presence. This bullet presupposes an illicit relationship; it is not an indicator of one. And again, is nothing to do with the effect on the faithful partner.

 

If the SO feels that it's inappropriate then it's inappropriate. If the other person disagrees then they shouldn't be in a relationship with that person.



#83 Romy

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:30 AM

Oh. Well, that's a little disappointing.

 

Would it bother you if you saw Chappy holding hands with a male friend of hers?

 

Not with a male friend per-say.
It would bother me if I saw her holding hands with her ex-boyfriend considering the fact that they were emotionally/physically involved with each other.
(Which is what I asked you unless I misunderstood the definition of SO)



#84 Sweeney

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:35 AM

If the SO feels that it's inappropriate then it's inappropriate. If the other person disagrees then they shouldn't be in a relationship with that person.

 

So if your boyfriend thought that your relationship with another male friend was inappropriate, then it would be?

I don't think you believe that.

 

I do agree that that kind of difference in opinion should give serious pause to the likelihood of the committed relationship being a good idea, though. It shouldn't be a dealbreaker, but it should be something to talk over.



Not with a male friend per-say.
It would bother me if I saw her holding hands with her ex-boyfriend considering the fact that they were emotionally/physically involved with each other.
(Which is what I asked you unless I misunderstood the definition of SO)

 

*per se

Yes, I asked you a different question to the one you asked me. Why would it bother you for her to hold hands with an ex-boyfriend?



#85 Adam

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:09 AM

An alpha male/female doesn't just let 'their' man/woman do those things listed above.

 

Unless you're beta bro.

 

If my girlfriend were doing any of those things with another person, there'd be major trouble. I'd imagine there would be an altercation between the other guy and myself, and the girl would then become an ex.


Edited by Adam, 27 February 2013 - 11:11 AM.


#86 Romy

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:13 AM

*per se

Yes, I asked you a different question to the one you asked me. Why would it bother you for her to hold hands with an ex-boyfriend?

 

She's as much mine as I am hers.
By holding hands with her ex, she's undermining me and our relationship.

 

If you think that it's acceptable to hold hands with an ex,  then that's your personal opinion. A dumb one, but yours nonetheless.

Where do you draw the line? What if she cuddled with him? Or watched porn?

What does it take for Sweeney to tick?


Edited by Ivysaur, 27 February 2013 - 11:14 AM.


#87 Adam

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:16 AM

What does it take for Sweeney to tick?

Probably the only thing that could set him off is if a guy was talking to his girlfriend, and they used improper grammar. "How darest thou insult my lady's intelligence with ye gutter speak." /slap



#88 Elindoril

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:19 AM

Where do you draw the line? What if she cuddled with him? Or watched porn?


Why is watching porn so terrible? Do you think that when they watch it their clothes are suddenly going to fly off and they'll be rolling around in their own juices?



#89 Turnip

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:19 AM

An alpha male/female doesn't just let 'their' man/woman do those things listed above.

 

Unless you're beta bro.

 

If my girlfriend were doing any of those things with another person, there'd be major trouble. I'd imagine there would be an altercation between the other guy and myself, and the girl would then become an ex.

 

Dude wouldn't you at least talk to the girl before breaking up with her? You don't know, she might have been harassed into doing it, didn't want to "disappoint" him and completely ruin the friendship (that does happen) or honestly thought there wasn't a problem  :unsure: Some girls are "overly friendly" or just like pleasing people, and not in that sort of way, heh



#90 Adam

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:25 AM

Dude wouldn't you at least talk to the girl before breaking up with her? You don't know, she might have been harassed into doing it, didn't want to "disappoint" him and completely ruin the friendship (that does happen) or honestly thought there wasn't a problem  :unsure: Some girls are "overly friendly" or just like pleasing people, and not in that sort of way, heh

I may have exaggerated slightly by jumping straight to breaking up. I blame my tainted way of thinking on past experiences. I would never believe something like this, "I gave him a blowjob because he was feeling sad. He's happy now, and now I feel like a good friend." or "He was bored, so I let him use toys on me. I hate when my friends are bored." 



#91 Elindoril

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:31 AM

"I gave him a blowjob because he was feeling sad. He's happy now, and now I feel like a good friend." or "He was bored, so I let him use toys on me. I hate when my friends are bored." 

Realistically how often does this happen? If it's quite a bit than maybe one needs to rethink his choice in women.

Back in high school I knew a girl that liked to link her arm with mine when we walked around. This didn't signify anything at all as she friend zoned me hard a while before this happened, she just liked doing it.



#92 ShadowLink64

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:43 AM

All of them are unacceptable to me except for maybe the hand holding one, just because I've heard some different perspectives in this thread. For myself, if I'm holding hands with a girl, she would be my exclusive girlfriend. I wouldn't want anyone to misconstrue anything or risk hurting my girlfriend's feelings by holding anyone else's hand. Also, hand holding is a romantic gesture for me. However, people come from many different backgrounds and have different experiences, and in other societies hand holding happens in non-romantic friendships.

 

Like Sweeney said, communication is super important if you want to know what the real deal is. The relationship ends up failing anyway if you can't openly talk about these things. You just have to decide for yourself what is acceptable and what isn't.



#93 Romy

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:51 AM


Why is watching porn so terrible? Do you think that when they watch it their clothes are suddenly going to fly off and they'll be rolling around in their own juices?

 

I just put it in there to make a point.
Idgaf.



#94 Sweeney

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:53 AM

An alpha male/female doesn't just let 'their' man/woman do those things listed above.

 

Unless you're beta bro.

 

If my girlfriend were doing any of those things with another person, there'd be major trouble. I'd imagine there would be an altercation between the other guy and myself, and the girl would then become an ex.

 

This is laughable. You don't "own" a person. I don't control what my fiance does.

If she wants to hold hands with someone, why should I care? I trust her, I'm the one she chose to marry.

 

That's the mature attitude to hold, not some alpha-male posturing.



#95 Mishelle

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:54 AM

So if your boyfriend thought that your relationship with another male friend was inappropriate, then it would be?

I don't think you believe that.

 

I do agree that that kind of difference in opinion should give serious pause to the likelihood of the committed relationship being a good idea, though. It shouldn't be a dealbreaker, but it should be something to talk over.



 

*per se

Yes, I asked you a different question to the one you asked me. Why would it bother you for her to hold hands with an ex-boyfriend?

 

If he thought it was inappropriate and hurting his ability to have a relationship with me then I would definitely make an effort to distance myself and create stronger boundaries with said male friend but most of my male friends are gay as all fuck so that doesn't happen too often. And if it was strictly platonic and he thought I was cheating then I would end the relationship. My last ex boyfriend told me up front that he didn't think blowjobs were cheating and it's only cheating if penis goes into a vagina. I thought otherwise, we broke up.


Edited by Mishelle, 27 February 2013 - 11:57 AM.


#96 Sweeney

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:06 PM

She's as much mine as I am hers.
By holding hands with her ex, she's undermining me and our relationship.

 

If you think that it's acceptable to hold hands with an ex,  then that's your personal opinion. A dumb one, but yours nonetheless.

Where do you draw the line? What if she cuddled with him? Or watched porn?

What does it take for Sweeney to tick?

 

How is she undermining you by touching someone else's hand? Don't you trust her to touch someone without falling in love with them?

 

Who gives a shit about cuddling, or watching porn? They are both essentially platonic activities.

 

I wouldn't "draw the line", like its my decision to make, anywhere. I would talk to her about anything that I thought wouldn't be appropriate, like kissing on the lips outside of family, and anything more involved than that. If she didn't want to adjust her behaviour, considering my feelings, and she couldn't change my feelings with her reasoning, then we'd have an issue.



If he thought it was inappropriate and hurting his ability to have a relationship with me then I would definitely make an effort to distance myself and create stronger boundaries with said male friend but most of my male friends are gay as all fuck so that doesn't happen too often. And if it was strictly platonic and he thought I was cheating then I would end the relationship. My last ex boyfriend told me up front that he didn't think blowjobs were cheating and it's only cheating if penis goes into a vagina. I thought otherwise, we broke up.

 

You didn't answer the question.



#97 Waser Lave

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:07 PM

like kissing on the lips outside of family

Am I the only one who finds kissing on the lips between family members a bit odd?

#98 Sweeney

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:08 PM

Am I the only one who finds kissing on the lips between family members a bit odd?

 

I find it odd that you find it odd, considering where you live :p



#99 Waser Lave

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:09 PM

I find it odd that you find it odd, considering where you live :p

I don't understand the connection. xD

#100 Elindoril

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:10 PM

Am I the only one who finds kissing on the lips between family members a bit odd?

Outside of my mother and grandmother I find it weird.





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