478 replies to this topic

[Dan]

I don't think stopping women having abortions is the correct route (nor is it really possible), but I do think a certain amount of effort should go toward discouraging women having any invasive surgery.

 

Terminations shouldn't be taken lightly and I think there needs to be a lot of support for the mother and father (where applicable) post-abortion, including talking about how to avoid the situation repeating itself in future -- by encouraging better decisions around contraception (this obviously doesn't apply to every case of abortion, individual situations differ).

[talbs]

All of that was entirely hypothetical. Abortion is legal here, and I highly doubt that "right" will ever be taken away, so for the time being I suppose we are all good!

[Ali]

I don't think stopping women having abortions is the correct route (nor is it really possible), but I do think a certain amount of effort should go toward discouraging women having any invasive surgery.

 

Terminations shouldn't be taken lightly and I think there needs to be a lot of support for the mother and father (where applicable) post-abortion, including talking about how to avoid the situation repeating itself in future -- by encouraging better decisions around contraception (this obviously doesn't apply to every case of abortion, individual situations differ).

Again, something we are relatively good at in this country although I suspect it probably varies by local health authority, like most things in the NHS.

[Waser Lave]

I don't think stopping women having abortions is the correct route (nor is it really possible), but I do think a certain amount of effort should go toward discouraging women having any invasive surgery.

 

Invasive surgery?

[Ali]

All of that was entirely hypothetical. Abortion is legal here, and I highly doubt that "right" will ever be taken away, so for the time being I suppose we are all good!

You're in the US, I'm not. It's entirely possible for me not to be allowed an abortion. Unlikely, but by no means guaranteed.

[Romy]

I don't think I can be much clearer, can I?

Could you even call that an abortion really?

It's just kind of inducing labor.

 

 

 

I am personally in favor of abortion. I just kind of have trouble with it once the fetus is viable. Ain't abortion then.

(That is unless the baby has some sort of birth defect that will GREATLY affect it's quality of life. I'd hope we'd be able to detect that before my future spouse went into labor.)

[Sweeney]

Could you even call that an abortion really?
It's just kind of inducing labor.

I don't think you've understood either.

[Dan]

Invasive surgery?

 
Technically I suppose all surgery is invasive, but I said it to better highlight that while the surgical procedure may seem simple, any surgery has significant risk.

 

I don't think we yet completely understand the full set of potential risks around terminations considering how politically charged the subject is (and I'm not the person with enough time to research the source of the financial backing behind every medical study that claims this or that).

 

 

I don't think you've understood either.

 

Maybe I'm being dim, but I don't think I've understood either, so that's at least 3 of us. Can you elaborate? 

[talbs]

You're in the US, I'm not. It's entirely possible for me not to be allowed an abortion. Unlikely, but by no means guaranteed.

 

Hmm interesting. I definitely don't know much if anything regarding the topic outside of the USA which is one big reason I hadn't really participated all along.

[Sweeney]

Maybe I'm being dim, but I don't think I've understood either, so that's at least 3 of us. Can you elaborate?

What do you think I mean?

[Waser Lave]

 Technically I suppose all surgery is invasive, but I said it to better highlight that while the surgical procedure may seem simple, any surgery has significant risk.

 

I don't think we yet completely understand the full set of potential risks around terminations considering how politically charged the subject is (and I'm not the person with enough time to research the source of the financial backing behind every medical study that claims this or that).

 

Yeah, it's not massively invasive in most instances but it's going to be a hell of a lot safer than illegal abortions which would inevitably happen if it were made more difficult for women to have legal abortions. When you hear some of the stories that some women had to resort to back in the day it was truly horrific, that's part of the reason why I'm a strong believer in choice, I can't comprehend any woman having to go through that...

[Kaddict]

What do you think I mean?

Enough political pussyfooting. Answer a question...

[Sweeney]

Enough political pussyfooting. Answer a question...

I don't believe my original post was in any way ambiguous.

[Romy]

I don't think you've understood either.

 

WE ARE ALL BELOW YOUR INTELLIGENCE O' MASTER.

 

PLEASE ELABORATE SO THAT OUR FEEBLE LITTLE MINDS CAN BEGIN TO COMPREHEND THE THOUGHT PROCESS OF A BEING SO SUPERIOR TO US.

 

(Is that what you want to hear? Now clarify your stance instead of claiming that no one understands you. Fuck.)

[Dan]

Yeah, it's not massively invasive in most instances but it's going to be a hell of a lot safer than illegal abortions which would inevitably happen if it were made more difficult for women to have legal abortions. When you hear some of the stories that some women had to resort to back in the day it was truly horrific, that's part of the reason why I'm a strong believer in choice, I can't comprehend any woman having to go through that...

I agree, the choice is very important and in that sense I'm very pro-choice. I don't think the issue is a black and white "yes" or "no", though, so there are some elements of the pro-life debate that I personally understand and agree with.

[Sweeney]

WE ARE ALL BELOW YOUR INTELLIGENCE O' MASTER.
 
PLEASE ELABORATE SO THAT OUR FEEBLE LITTLE MINDS CAN BEGIN TO COMPREHEND THE THOUGHT PROCESS OF AN BEING SO SUPERIOR TO US.
 
(Is that what you want to hear? Now clarify your stance instead of claiming that no one understands you. Fuck.)

lol

[Ali]

The only questions that matter are "does pursuing an alternative to abortion represent a greater risk to the mother's health, physically or mentally?", and "is the mother willing to undergo that risk?". If the answer to those questions are yes and then no, then the abortion is the ethical choice..

Reads pretty clearly to me guys.  No doubt he's being delightfully Joe about the whole thing, but you've got the answer there.

[Kaddict]

But when asked about the late term abortions, to me it seemed clear he was ok with it, and later to Ivysaur made it seem he wasn't ok with it. That is unclear...

[Romy]

Reads pretty clearly to me guys.  No doubt he's being delightfully Joe about the whole thing, but you've the answer is there.

Is there a difference between an abortion at 40 weeks and inducing labor?

Is it truly an abortion if the fetus is viable?

[Adam]

Are you ever going to elaborate or just continue to pad your post count?

[Waser Lave]

Translation:

 

If abortion is the safest option for the mother and the mother is unwilling to undertake any other options then abortion is the ethical choice.

[Kaddict]

Are you ever going to elaborate or just continue to pad your post count?

Answer: lol

[Romy]

Answer: lol

Please stop.

You don't pull off sarcasm well.

[Ali]

Is there a difference between an abortion at 40 weeks and inducing labor?

Is it truly an abortion if the fetus is viable?

I don't know enough about surgical abortion to comment tbh, I don't even know if standard procedures would work at that late term.

 

But when asked about the late term abortions, to me it seemed clear he was ok with it, and later to Ivysaur made it seem he wasn't ok with it. That is unclear...

He's saying the term is irrelevant. If the risk - either physical or mental - is greater than any other viable alternative and the mother isn't prepared to take that risk, abortion is ethical.

 

 

@Sweeney, the potential for risk or a genuine perceived risk? Obviously any point of pregnancy and birth is a risk, we just have no idea what will happen. Women go into labour in perfectly healthy circumstances and don't make it. People with no history of mental illness develop awful occurrences of post-natal depression. Do you take it from our current abortion standpoint that there's some pre-existing condition rather than the mother not being able to face the potential for risk?

[Romy]

Translation:

 

If abortion is the safest option for the mother and the mother is unwilling to undertake any other options then abortion is the ethical choice.

But what's the difference between inducing labor and an abortion when the fetus is viable?

I don't know enough about surgical abortion to comment tbh, I don't even know if standard procedures would work at that late term.

That's what I'm trying to get @Sweeney to answer.

 

I'm not being standoffish, I'm genuinely asking.