163 replies to this topic

[Frizzle]

3 posts calling me ignorant, arrogant, and racist

Devaluing someone else's culture and racial history and advocating physical and destructive violence is all of the above.

[Magical]

I agree with Waser the Jewish community has an extremely long history of being persecuted and the swastika is a prominent symbol used in that persecution even today by hate groups.

 

Mmm, in Western culture, definitely.

 

I've found that some people often like to defy sensitivities to the swastika, by stating that it is immensely important etc. in order to spite those who are sensitive. Such lack of genuine reason for parading around the swastika is seriously hurtful.

i don't think any jew would want to sit down and have a conversation with him

 

although as I would have love to sit down with a person like stalin, I can see how people who were not directly affected by it may want to sit down with hitler...though i still don't like it

 

And that's perfectly understandable - because of what he represents to the Jewish race.

[Nothingtown]

Devaluing someone else's culture and racial history and advocating physical and destructive violence is all of the above.

 

how about you contribute to the conversation rather than just post to attack me?

 

swastikas devalue my culture and racial history

[HappyAccident]

i don't think any jew would want to sit down and have a conversation with him

 

although as I would have love to sit down with a person like stalin, I can see how people who were not directly affected by it may want to sit down with hitler...though i still don't like it

Agree with this. I definitely see it from a non jews perspective to want to sit down with him. Just not me.

[Frizzle]

I've always found Stephen Fry's quote quite apt for situations like this.

[Hawk]

[Magical]

As a Jew, I would have to disagree. Of course I understand that it has meaning in other cultures and I respect that, but just having conversations with my great- grandmother about the suffering she went through during and after the war, I can't bring myself to view the symbol in a different way. I know that sounds ignorant but I just can't, nothing I can do about it. She usually can't even finish a story because she just starts breaking down in front of us and feels embarrassed.

 

As for the dinner with Hitler. I definitely see the interest in having it, but for the sake of what a majority of my family went through, I wouldn't sit at the same table as him because I feel it would disrespect them in a way.

 

Not arrogant or ignorant. It's understandable. It's a deep trauma that has left an entire race in fear - it's completely rational.

 

My family came from Romania/Hungary and essentially, the war tore them apart. It's not surprising that, even today, a lot of Europeans have mixed feelings of what went on concerning Hitler's indirect actions.

[Nothingtown]

I've always found Stephen Fry's quote quite apt for situations like this.

 

yet we were asked for our opinion

you seem to simply be here to bitch at people

 

i would simply expect not to be personally attacked for posting my opinion

 

 

 

grindelwald took the sign of the deathly hallows for his own

 

the deathly hallows wasn't a negative symbol, but grindelwald was a powerful dark wizard and gave it a negative connotation

 

but when viktor krum saw xenophilius lovegood wearing it at bill and fleurs wedding he was offended by it and confronted him.

 

 

/harrypotterlogic

Edited by Nothingtown, 26 May 2014 - 07:14 AM.

[Dan]

I've always found Stephen Fry's quote quite apt for situations like this.

 

To be fair, @Galadriel has baited a group of people into a thread and then purveyed an opinion that tells them taking any offense from a symbol previously  currently used to signify persecution of their race is invalid.

 

That's a little different to saying "I'm offended", and I'd imagine even Mr. Fry himself might agree.

[Bone]

Sometimes I think people are overly sensitive about things that don't really affect their lives, but it says a lot about a person if they're going to buy a swastika belly ring. Have some empathy and consider whether it's worth hurting someone before doing shit like that, regardless of their justification.

[Frizzle]

To be fair, @Galadriel has baited a group of people into a thread and then purveyed an opinion that tells them taking any offense from a symbol previously currently used to signify persecution of their race is invalid.

That's a little different to saying "I'm offended", and I'd imagine even Mr. Fry himself might agree.

It's all contextual, and in the context used it's a completely stupid ideal. Unless you're suggesting that we should visit ancient Hindu temples and burning them down is advocated because it's adorned with symbols created thousands of years before it was adopted by a megalomaniac with a scapegoat.

[Magical]

yet we were asked for our opinion

you seem to simply be here to bitch at people

 

i would simply expect not to be personally attacked for posting my opinion

 

 

 

grindelwald took the sign of the deathly hallows for his own

 

the deathly hallows wasn't a negative symbol, but grindelwald was a powerful dark wizard and gave it a negative connotation

 

but when viktor krum saw xenophilius lovegood wearing it at bill and fleurs wedding he was offended by it and confronted him.

 

 

/harrypotterlogic

 

I think the purpose of the Fry quote is to say that people will blurt out "I'm offended" without giving any actual thought to the subject matter. I can understand - the amount of times I've heard people brainlessly say similar things xD

[HappyAccident]

Sometimes I think people are overly sensitive about things that don't really affect their lives

Am I oversensitive for considering the use of the swastika offensive or for not wanting to sit at a table with him?

 

Not really sure I understand what you are trying to get at here. Not an attack or anything, genuinely don't understand.

[Frizzle]

Am I oversensitive for considering the use of the swastika offensive or for not wanting to sit at a table with him?

Not really sure I understand what you are trying to get at here. Not an attack or anything, genuinely don't understand.

Again, it's contextual. I don't think anyone's suggesting a Jew wouldn't/shouldn't be offended by Neo-nazism, but a swastika is more than that.

[Elindoril]

I like this thread

ask for a jews opinion on a topic, and then attack him for it

He did not call you any hurtful names. He was not attacking you.

From any historian's standpoint, or at least those interested in Hitler, having the chance to meet Hitler is an opportunity that they could just not pass up. If the intentions are pure there is no reason to call anyone stupid or idiotic for wanting to do so.

[Nothingtown]

Sometimes I think people are overly sensitive about things that don't really affect their lives, but it says a lot about a person if they're going to buy a swastika belly ring. Have some empathy and consider whether it's worth hurting someone before doing shit like that, regardless of their justification.

 

I agree, yet when the history of your culture and family has had such a negative stain in it, I don't presume to know about the cultures of everyone here or what hardships their family has endured but I would they'd be more sensitive to subjects that have affected them than those that have not

 

While these issues may not have affected my life in a huge way today, there is still a lasting effect that we deal with daily
I live in quebec, as a english speaking jew, where a french catholic party leader was doing her absolute best to make life hard for all anglophones and any religions outside of catholicism

[HappyAccident]

I think the purpose of the Fry quote is to say that people will blurt out "I'm offended" without giving any actual thought to the subject matter. I can understand - the amount of times I've heard people brainlessly say similar things xD

I haven't seen anyone post something similar to blurting out "i'm offended" yet without any sort of reason as to why they are so I don't understand how @ Frizzle 's picture applies here.

[Magical]

I haven't seen anyone post something similar to blurting out "i'm offended" yet without any sort of reason as to why they are so I don't understand how @ Frizzle 's picture applies here.

 

Yeah, I agree on that. But people (in society) will blatantly use such a phrase. Really pisses me off

[Nothingtown]

He did not call you any hurtful names. He was not attacking you.

From any historian's standpoint, or at least those interested in Hitler, having the chance to meet Hitler is an opportunity that they could just not pass up. If the intentions are pure there is no reason to call anyone stupid or idiotic for wanting to do so.

 

I will rescind that comment...as I really have not looked at it from that point of view

It is just not something I would ever consider, and would be shocked if any jewish person would

[Dan]

It's all contextual, and in the context used it's a completely stupid ideal. Unless you're suggesting that we should visit ancient Hindu temples and burning them down is advocated because it's adorned with symbols created thousands of years before it was adopted by a megalomaniac with a scapegoat.

 

Not what I'm suggesting at all - the point I'm trying to make is it's not our decision as to who gets offended by what.

 

If you want to go and buy a hindu belly ring with a swastika on it (which would look great on you by the way) then go right ahead, but don't think it's your job to tell people that they shouldn't be offended considering it's very recent and continued use as a symbol of racial hatred.

[HappyAccident]

Yeah, I agree on that. But people (in society) will blatantly use such a phrase. Really pisses me off

Oh yea, I thought it was in reference to @Nothingtown in this thread, rather than a more general post.

Not what I'm suggesting at all - the point I'm trying to make is it's not our decision as to who gets offended by what.

 

If you want to go and buy a hindu belly ring with a swastika on it (which would look great on you by the way) then go right ahead, but don't think it's your job to tell people that they shouldn't be offended considering it's very recent and continued use as a symbol of racial hatred.

Agree 100% with this. 

[Magical]

Not what I'm suggesting at all - the point I'm trying to make is it's not our decision as to who gets offended by what.

 

If you want to go and buy a hindu belly ring with a swastika on it (which would look great on you by the way) then go right ahead, but don't think it's your job to tell people that they shouldn't be offended considering it's very recent and continued use as a symbol of racial hatred.

 

It's all about the intentions, though. If such symbols are used in order to 'stick it' to sensitive people, then yeah, we should all be offended.

 

I'm not referring to anyone here, but we often had cunts like these in my year level. (Especially with their comments on Communism - let's not even go there).

[Frizzle]

As people have stated, it's all opinionated, so it generally is my opinion on what people should be offended by or not.

I'd generally like the gentile people, of all races, would be able to accept racial diversity and differences.

If people are unable to see the difference between an ancient symbol of spiritually, and a racist Neo-nazi thug, they truly are blinded by emotion.

[NapisaurusRex]

Racism and Antisemitism were a huge part of my life growing up.

I wouldn't buy anything from anyone who was selling swastikas, but that probably has more to do with the fact that the only places to buy swastika anything around here are head shops and I wouldn't buy anything from a head shop. I like going in and poking around when I'm feeling nostalgic, but I don't want that stuff in my house.

If Hitler was my only choice of who to have dinner with I'd be like FUCK YEAH TIME TRAVEL but there's a thousand and one people I'd rather eat with.

[Sweeney]

People are entitled to be offended, and people are entitled to do things that offend other people.

Offence is a pretty useless thing to feel and express, in my opinion. But that doesn't stop people feeling what they feel.