88 replies to this topic

[Lucian]

Page not found. Why do you tease me like this.

 

 

Sorry, edited the original post.^^

 

http://www.worthytos...-a-rich-husband

[Padme]

I don't have nearly this amount of money, but you bet your ass that my wife is signing a prenup before we get married...if I ever get married. There's so many scandalous people out there; trust no one. If she doesn't want to sign a prenup...welp CYA.

 

You should likely never get married then since more prenups are thrown out than are upheld. The average person would be laughed at if they asked for a prenup as well. Best bet is to live in a place where common-law marriage isn't observed and simply never marry your partner.

 

 

I found a quote that may put it into perspective. 

 

That speaks best to the principal of it all, I definitely agree =)

[Shannon]

I find nothing wrong with rejecting the money

I'm starting to feel that way too. Lots of good points in this thread, despite some of them being written in an inflammatory way.

[Adam]

You should likely never get married then since more prenups are thrown out than are upheld. The average person would be laughed at if they asked for a prenup as well. Best bet is to live in a place where common-law marriage isn't observed and simply never marry your partner.

My thought behind that is as such; if you're not with me for the money then what's the harm in signing the prenup? Why would I be laughed at for asking for one, other than most of them are thrown out in court.

[Padme]

My thought behind that is as such; if you're not with me for the money then what's the harm in signing the prenup? Why would I be laughed at for asking for one, other than most of them are thrown out in court.

 

Because most peoples assets aren't worth getting a prenup for.

 

I would never sign a prenup or ask someone for one. If I am prepared to make that commitment to someone and it fails I deserve to lose at least half. Save for things like fraud, infidelity, etc. Those things are typically frowned upon by judges and they take it into consideration with the split of marital assets. 

 

I'm not saying you personally would be laughed at btw, it was more of a general comment. Not a personal attack btw :3 just wanted to clarify!

[Adam]

Because most peoples assets aren't worth getting a prenup for.

 

I would never sign a prenup or ask someone for one. If I am prepared to make that commitment to someone and it fails I deserve to lose at least half. Save for things like fraud, infidelity, etc. Those things are typically frowned upon by judges and they take it into consideration with the split of marital assets. 

 

I'm not saying you personally would be laughed at btw, it was more of a general comment. Not a personal attack btw :3 just wanted to clarify!

I know it's not a personal attack, the words "you", and "your" etc are used loosely :].

 

So if you've done nothing significantly wrong that warrants a divorce, you'd be perfectly fine losing half of everything? I don't get why a court gets to determine how much something is worth to me. (ex) $20,000 over the next 5 years may not be a lot to a judge, but it sure as hell is a lot to me.

 

 

Not-so-secret Edit: I found these little facts that will invalidate a prenup.

Spoiler

1.  The agreement is fraudulent.

A prenuptial agreement requires each spouse to make full disclosure of his/her assets. In divorce, it is quite common for the husband to undervalue assets or fail to disclose them at all, so these assets can’t be made part of a settlement agreement. Unfortunately, prenups are prone to this kind of underhandedness, as well. If you can prove your husband did not fully disclose his income or assets at the time you signed the prenup, you may have grounds to have the agreement thrown out, now that you’re getting a divorce.

2.  The agreement was coerced, signed under duress or signed without mental capacity.

Coersion or duress can be extremely difficult to prove, and, as with many aspects of divorce law, different states have different standards for what it means to have been coerced into an agreement. Still, it is not unheard of for a prenup to be thrown out on this basis. Similarly, if you can prove that you lacked mental capacity to understand the prenup when you signed it – for example, if you were ill or under the influence of drugs — this may be a sound reason to invalidate it.

3.  The paperwork wasn’t properly filed in the first place.

As with any legal contract, the enforceability of a prenup can come down to the proverbial “crossed t’s and dotted i’s.” Careless errors could render a prenup less than airtight. If the initial agreement was poorly drafted, it may also be invalid.

4.  You signed without proper legal representation.

Both parties to a prenup should have separate and independent counsel (in fact, some states actually require that they do). If you signed something that your wealthy fiancé or his family arranged to be drawn up for you to agree to in order to marry him, be aware that this may not be an ironclad agreement if, years later, he wants out of the marriage. Signing a contract without legal representation is never a good idea! But if that’s how you signed your prenup, there may be a chance of invalidating it.

5. The agreement contains ridiculous provisions . . . or is simply too lopsided.

Even though divorce court judges are typically disinterested in most peculiarities of individual contracts, there can be factors that raise eyebrows. For instance, if your prenup states no child support whatsoever will be paid in the event of a divorce, it is likely to be thrown out.  Provisions in the prenup about weight gain, hair color, frequency of sexual relations, visits by in-laws — remember, the judges have heard it all — are likely not to hold up in court, either.

In summary, in order for a prenup to be effective, both parties must have their own separate attorney. Plus, the prenup must be:

• Written. Oral prenups are not valid.
• Executed voluntarily and without coercion. A prenup that’s signed the day before the wedding can be invalidated.
• Executed only after full disclosure. If you hide assets and/or liabilities, you run the risk of invalidating the prenup.
• Conscionable. A prenup cannot be unconscionable. In other words, the prenup could be invalidated if the agreement is too lopsided, with one party awarded almost everything and the other receiving only a pittance.
• Executed by both parties, preferably in front of witnesses (or a notary). Some attorneys even recommend having a judge witness the signing to make sure that neither party was coerced into signing.

Written in a recordable format, such as a real estate deed

   

Sauce: http://www.forbes.co...ght-be-invalid/

 

I guess my distrust in others, and hatred for the institution of marriage has made me bitter about even entertaining the idea of ever marrying someone.

[Padme]

I know it's not a personal attack, the words "you", and "your" etc are used loosely :].

 

So if you've done nothing significantly wrong that warrants a divorce, you'd be perfectly fine losing half of everything? I don't get why a court gets to determine how much something is worth to me. (ex) $20,000 over the next 5 years may not be a lot to a judge, but it sure as hell is a lot to me.

 

 

 

That is exactly what I am saying. I think reasons like 'we grew apart' or 'we don't love each other like we used to' you know the typical things you hear are complete and total BS. You made vows, you agreed to be married. If you can't stick to your commitment than you shouldn't be able to just walk away from it. That's just my personal opinion. I think people get married too soon, too young and to people they don't really know well enough. 

 

Eh I don't really know. I mean honestly if I married a rich person I wouldn't want their dirty money unless he screwed me over than I'd go to the ends of the earth to burn them  

[Lucian]

For me, asking for a prenup brings-to-light a lot of signs why you shouldn't marry the person asking for one. Mind you, there are always the three big issues that affect every marriage. Money, family, and fidelity. I feel that, someone who asks for a prenup, may have insecurities that can greatly affect the marriage, trust issues, and issues with sharing. BUT, I have many friends who have married people that have a complete 180 when they decided to get divorced. False claims of domestic abuse, infidelity, and child neglect.

[NapisaurusRex]

I wouldn't have any issue signing a prenup, even though I'm broke. In the event that something would happen, I'd want to hold onto my house so my kids wouldn't be homeless no matter what.

[DonValentino]

I would never want a pre-nup in my marriage. In my mind, if you're entertaining that idea then you're also entertaining the notion that you're marriage will fail, which I would never want to think. I have no plans to ever jump in a marriage, and I plan on being with someone for at least two-three years before we get married so I know I really want to be with them. I understand that signing one is just covering your bases in case things go wrong, but when you're planning on marrying someone the only thought you should have is how wonderful it's going to be spending the rest of your life with the person you love.

[NapisaurusRex]

UNTIL THEY TURN INTO A CHEATING LYING PIECE OF SHIT AND TAKE HALF OF EVERYTHING YOU OWN AND LEAVE YOU IN A CARDBOARD BOX AND A TRASHED VAN.

[Frizzle]

Personal experience?

[NapisaurusRex]

Nah, premonition.

[Ali]

The problem with pre-nups, and why they're often not enforceable is that you're deciding the conditions for a situation you don't know yet.

For instance, my friend is 26 and a junior lawyer, 2 years qualified, currently earning about £65k/year She works for a firm where the partners are taking home 7 figure salaries. Her partner is a junior partner about 10 years her senior. If they marry, and she gives up her career to have and raise 3 children, would it be fair in 20 years to say she's entitled to absolutely nothing on the basis of a pre-nup she signs at the very beginning?

We don't know what she's contributed to that relationship, what she gave up for it, what part HE played in her choices (perhaps she was encouraged to be reliant on his wealth), what happened to her...so so many variables. Maybe she should get more and maybe the courts will decide that. Maybe she's just being greedy. I don't think we can call it based on what you know.

[Adam]

I would never want a pre-nup in my marriage. In my mind, if you're entertaining that idea then you're also entertaining the notion that you're marriage will fail, which I would never want to think. I have no plans to ever jump in a marriage, and I plan on being with someone for at least two-three years before we get married so I know I really want to be with them. I understand that signing one is just covering your bases in case things go wrong, but when you're planning on marrying someone the only thought you should have is how wonderful it's going to be spending the rest of your life with the person you love.

That's all fine and dandy of course, and maybe -your- idea of marriage is being happy forever and ever, but what about the other person? Who knows their 'true' feelings, and their agenda.

[NapisaurusRex]

That's all fine and dandy of course, and maybe -your- idea of marriage is being happy forever and ever, but what about the other person? Who knows their 'true' feelings, and their agenda.

...this was really depressing to read.

[jinq]

While I think it sounds ludicrous at first that she would reject this cheque there is a lot to take into consideration.

 

Why they settled on this amount?

Giving her more would potentially cause him to have to dissolve certain assets which could force him to lose majority in his business. (Haven't read about this case in months but that was the case at first.)

 

I fully agree that she should have rejected it. However, she is also the one to file for the divorce so that is something else to take into consideration in the matter.

 

In my eyes, once you are married whatever you once had is no longer 'yours' it is 'ours.' Therefore, I don't care if he had all 18 billion before they got married, if he didn't want to part with half his money he never should of married (he didn't have the 18 billion but he had quite a substantial amount.) 

 

I'll continue to avoid being with people of certain socioeconomic circumstances because I can't imagine being ripped apart like this woman is and the butt of jokes because she is fighting for what she deserves on principal. 

I'm sure a lot of rich guys sign prenups to protect whatever they had before their marriage. I do believe whatever they earned after the marriage should be shared though.

[redlion]

In my eyes, once you are married whatever you once had is no longer 'yours' it is 'ours.' Therefore, I don't care if he had all 18 billion before they got married, if he didn't want to part with half his money he never should of married (he didn't have the 18 billion but he had quite a substantial amount.)

I don't like thinking that entering into a marriage means agreeing to forfeit half my prenuptial assets if something goes wrong down the line.

That said, I agree with what you later said about living in partnership without the married title, or living where common marriage isn't recognized. I wouldn't get married legally, I'd have a ceremony for the right girl though.

I'm of the opinion that marriage exists today largely as a vehicle for population control and child rearing (we have tax credits for having children) rather than any sanctimonious religious practice. At least in a legal mindset. From that perspective, I think of it more like a business partnership insofar as money is concerned.

I see no reason for each partner to want to protect themselves from future bad events. Like @Ali said, it's hard to predict future assets, but I think of a prenuptial agreement as an agreement about current assets and future partnerships. Like agreements about how to split future co-owned property and assets. They should be strictly financial in my opinion, none of that funny business about hair color or weight gain or future children.
 

I don't have nearly this amount of money, but you bet your ass that my wife is signing a prenup before we get married...if I ever get married. There's so many scandalous people out there; trust no one. If she doesn't want to sign a prenup...welp CYA.

I mean I understand where you're coming from, really I do. Buut...

Divorce laws are set to be in favor of women, and more often than not the man in the relationship will end up with less parental rights than the woman does. This is another reason why I'm so hesitant on even entertaining the idea of marriage when it comes that time. Where's feminism to fight for equal rights for both men and women?

Women are held to a higher standard when it comes to responsibility for their offspring. The law compensates them for that in ways that cannot ever make up for what they do. I mean get real - you came out of someone's body.

[Lucian]

That's all fine and dandy of course, and maybe -your- idea of marriage is being happy forever and ever, but what about the other person? Who knows their 'true' feelings, and their agenda.

 

Breh, you got some trust issues.

[Frizzle]

Or he's just realistic and pratical. Can you ever really know somebody? No, not at all. People get screwed over daily, so if you're particularly wealthy, it's a good idea.

[Emily]

Dunno how I'd feel about a pre-nup. I'd have to actually be successful and make some money that could potentially be taken from me first. However, I don't like the idea of thinking about a divorce before even getting married. At the same time, people can be realllyyyyy nasty when it comes to divorce. You could be married to and love someone for years and end up being screwed over in the end. Baffles me how you can do that to someone you claim to have loved, even if you don't anymore.

[Lucian]

Or he's just realistic and pratical. Can you ever really know somebody? No, not at all. People get screwed over daily, so if you're particularly wealthy, it's a good idea.

 

But what's a marriage if you're wondering your partner's 'true' feelings? Difference between being realistic or being insecure/paranoid. If you have thoughts about getting a prenup just to protect yourself from a possible nasty divorce later on you probably should not be getting married in the first place. You can't know everything that goes on in your partner's head. But if you can't trust them enough to know they always have your best interest in mind then don't put yourself in that situation.

[Frizzle]

That's human nature unfortunately, it's why people suddenly kill themselves after 20 years of marriage with no note, it's why people have affairs.

I've seen it first hand with my uncle, this bitch was saving up money behind his back and almost got him kicked out of his own house (he had paid off the mortgage on his own and with his ex-wife) because she had two kids from her pervious marriage that had minor learning difficulties

[Lucian]

Fortunately marriages today are moving away from one person being the bread-winner while the other becomes the homemaker. A lot of couples are consisted of both people having jobs so the financial loads are shared equally. My wife and I both get paid exactly the same, our bills are split evenly, and we each have one of our two cars in our name. Our assets, combined, probably only equal out to a little over $100k because we still live in an apartment. We both have access to each other's bank accounts and are always upfront about how much we're saving and spending. So not every marriageBut I have always told my wife, jokingly, if we ever get a divorce she could take everything. All I need is my gaming computer, truck, and the dog. Although a lot of marriages go sour not all of them crash and burn.

[Emily]

That's human nature unfortunately, it's why people suddenly kill themselves after 20 years of marriage with no note, it's why people have affairs.

I've seen it first hand with my uncle, this bitch was saving up money behind his back and almost got him kicked out of his own house (he had paid off the mortgage on his own and with his ex-wife) because she had two kids from her pervious marriage that had minor learning difficulties

 

Sounds like my uncle. His ex wife is an evil bitch... and he just got remarried to someone just like her. Thankfully, he bought his house before he married the first one so she couldn't claim that - even though she tried - but she pretty much got everything inside the house as well as most of his money. He also hasn't seen his kids in a year.