563 replies to this topic

[Chloee]

I don't give a monkeys what you're saying about my opinion, because you've demonstrated that your opinions are shallow, and based on irredeemably flawed "reasoning".

Your thoughts are wrong. Fix it, or fuck off.


Your opinions are hardly complex. I understand them.
They're still wrong.

Uh, sorry and all but how can I think wrong? And yea I think I will just end it in this post...
I think that abortion is wrong, because to me it is like killing a life.

[Sweeney]

Uh, sorry and all but how can I think wrong? And yea I think I will just end it in this post...
I think that abortion is wrong, because to me it is like killing a life.

You can think wrong, by maintaining an opinon in the face of contradictory evidence.

Define what you mean by "life" in that final sentence.

[Chloee]

You can think wrong, by maintaining an opinon in the face of contradictory evidence.

Define what you mean by "life" in that final sentence.

Okay. By life I meant, a life. I know that didn't really explain it. But I mean a life like you and me etc. Because I think that as soon as the eggs fertilized you've made that baby and all it does from there is develop and grow like people do all the time. It is just a little different since it is in the womb. At least that's what I think. You're probably gonna say that's wrong, but oh well.

[Sweeney]

Okay. By life I meant, a life. I know that didn't really explain it. But I mean a life like you and me etc. Because I think that as soon as the eggs fertilized you've made that baby and all it does from there is develop and grow like people do all the time. It is just a little different since it is in the womb. At least that's what I think. You're probably gonna say that's wrong, but oh well.

That's a thought so unexamined it's barely coherent.

You seem to think that even a single cell with the capacity to become a fully grown human being should be protected at any cost.
Accurate?

[Tarabyte]

Oh and I know this wasn't directed to me, but I would pick B. But I know that the world wouldn't let it become illegal/not able to have one, so if somebody did have one I wouldn't treat them any differently to someone who has had one.
Plus, I hope this just simplifies my opinions for you Sweeney. I just wouldn't permit it.

Did you bother to read what lead up to that question?


If you did, its good to know you've joined the Who Cares If Tara Dies Team.

[Chloee]

That's a thought so unexamined it's barely coherent.

You seem to think that even a single cell with the capacity to become a fully grown human being should be protected at any cost.
Accurate?

Um. Not really. It's when the egg has been fertilised and a life or baby starts to grow from that. Because then that baby and life is growing and progressing.

Did you bother to read what lead up to that question?


If you did, its good to know you've joined the who Cares If Tara Dies Team.

Oh, sorry! I did read a bit, but not all of it. Oops. Just thought that it would express my opinion easier...
So, I'm sorry if I read it wrong.

Edited by Victini, 16 March 2011 - 11:43 AM.

[Kat]

I find it a bit funny that you're trying to debate a 14 year old Sweeney, who obviously knows very little.
I was just sitting here chuckling and thinking I probably have some eggs older than her, rofl.


Anyway..
I'll add some sort of comment about the thread itself I guess. :v
I'm personally very pro-choice.. not that I'm not pro-life, either! I think the words we use to describe both sides are unfitting.
If you say you're "pro-choice", you're obviously a baby killer and don't appreciate God's gift!!11 and all that jazz.
Ridiculous. Let's just say I'm for abortion of any kind. The fetus is not alive until it breathes it's first breath outside of the womb.
You do not record a baby's life from the moment of conception, it's birthday is the day it is born.
However I do think having an abortion "just because" or as a form of birth control is wrong, but should we ban abortions all together just because of a few individuals? No.
That's the choice part.. that's the mother's choice to live with that action, it's her body and her future. Sometimes people forget that once the woman had a child she's bound to it by social restrictions.. yes of course, she could give it up for adoption and whatnot, but I would love to not post adoption success rates. I will be honest too, and say I don't like it when men voice their pro-life opinions on this issue loudly and proudly.. the feminist in me screams at that. They'll never experience the pain of having a child nor the repercussions. I can elaborate on this, but I need to do homework.
I have a lot more to say on this issue, but it's already been said many times in this thread as well.

[Tarabyte]

Um. Not really. It's when the egg has been fertilised and a life or baby starts to grow from that. Because then that baby and life is growing and progressing.



Oh, sorry! I did read a bit, but not all of it. Oops. Just thought that it would express my opinion easier...
So, I'm sorry if I read it wrong.

The question was, knowing that a pregnancy would kill me, should I be forced to carry on the pregnancy? If abortion weren't permitted, this would be the case.

[Chloee]

I find it a bit funny that you're trying to debate a 14 year old Sweeney, who obviously knows very little.
I was just sitting here chuckling and thinking I probably have some eggs older than her, rofl.


Anyway..
I'll add some sort of comment about the thread itself I guess. :v
I'm personally very pro-choice.. not that I'm not pro-life, either! I think the words we use to describe both sides are unfitting.
If you say you're "pro-choice", you're obviously a baby killer and don't appreciate God's gift!!11 and all that jazz.
Ridiculous. Let's just say I'm for abortion of any kind. The fetus is not alive until it breathes it's first breath outside of the womb.
You do not record a baby's life from the moment of conception, it's birthday is the day it is born.
However I do think having an abortion "just because" or as a form of birth control is wrong, but should we ban abortions all together just because of a few individuals? No.
That's the choice part.. that's the mother's choice to live with that action, it's her body and her future. Sometimes people forget that once the woman had a child she's bound to it by social restrictions.. yes of course, she could give it up for adoption and whatnot, but I would love to not post adoption success rates. I will be honest too, and say I don't like it when men voice their pro-life opinions on this issue loudly and proudly.. the feminist in me screams at that. They'll never experience the pain of having a child nor the repercussions. I can elaborate on this, but I need to do homework.
I have a lot more to say on this issue, but it's already been said many times in this thread as well.

Hahaha yea! I'm 14, and not doing Biology for GCSE xD
And when I just read through all the posts I realise how silly and stupid they all sound. So I can see why Sweeney is debating with me, especially since most of them don't make much sense. ;D

But I sort of agree with you. Abortion shouldn't be viewed as a get-out-of-pregnancy option. Otherwise what would be the point of protection. People would just go in when they get pregnant and don't want the baby...I also agree with women having a choice, and especially with things like rape etc. But for normal circumstances e.g women get pregnant out of a choice of their own, then I think abortion shouldn't be allowed.

The question was, knowing that a pregnancy would kill me, should I be forced to carry on the pregnancy? If abortion weren't permitted, this would be the case.

Ahh yeah. And couldn't you use some kind of protection? I understand about it sometimes failing, and not working. Or (and this will be drastic and if nothing else can be done) could you not have the womb taken out? A woman I know had to have hers removed when she would be killed if she got pregnant again.

[Tarabyte]

Ahh yeah. And couldn't you use some kind of protection? I understand about it sometimes failing, and not working. Or (and this will be drastic and if nothing else can be done) could you not have the womb taken out? A woman I know had to have hers removed when she would be killed if she got pregnant again.

I'm not having my uterus removed, because if I got pregnant after all the precautions I've taken, I'd get an abortion.
A hysterectomy leads to hormone therapy for the rest of your life. And, in case they ever find a treatment that makes pregnancy safe for me, I'd like to have another child down the line. I'm 22. I'm still young.

But, seriously, I asked if you read what lead up to that question so that you'd read what lead up to that question so the same things weren't being repeated over & over.
Here you go, so you don't actually have to put effort into reading the thread you're posting in:

Spoiler

I'm 22 years old and already have a daughter.
After my daughter was born, I had to go back on birth control immediately because another pregnancy is too dangerous for me.
My daughter & I almost died during labor.

I use more than one form of birth control, the pill & condoms, but there's still always a chance I could get pregnant. Every method fails.
Now, knowing that another pregnancy has a high chance of killing me, wouldn't continuing with a pregnancy be a form of suicide? Possibly homicide/suicide since if I died, so would the fetus most likely.

Which is worse, my getting an abortion to save myself or
continuing a dangerous pregnancy & risking not only mine, but the fetus's "life"?

Is tubal ligation a choice you'd consider? I'm guessing since this boils down to life and death, you wouldn't want to try for another child ten years down the line. I'm not sure if doctors would throw the "you're too young to make that decision" in your face since you're only 22, but it should be an option.

I did consider it. I was only eligible for it while I was married, though. Until you're 25, it's just not done unless you're married and have a child.
Plus, I simply can't afford it. I have no health insurance and am still paying for my hospital bills from my daughter's birth.

This is an extreme example> I would wager that if you really are using two forms of BC that it is extremely unlikely that both would fail. I would suggest that you be proactive and purchase the Plan B pill, in the event the unlikely occurs. Again, I am against abortion but wouldn't think harshly if you opted to have one under these circumstances, though it seems unlikely that pregnancy couldn't be prevented in the first place.

The use of Plan B when you are using birth control pills and condoms is a ridiculous notion. The product is essentially for women who had unprotected sex, or when a condom breaks, although sadly it is advertised as "when your birth control fails". You must take Plan B within 72 hours of intercourse for it to be effective. There is no way a woman can know if her birth control pills have failed in three days, and taking Plan B (retail price = $49.99) as a precaution after every single sexual encounter would disrupt her cycle, probably fuck her shit up, and cost more than an actual abortion after a while.

The birth control should be enough, but there is ALWAYS a chance of pregnancy. My brother was an accident that happened whilst my mother was on the pill and using condoms. But just because she wanted to keep the ugly little bastard, doesn't mean every woman can make that same choice.

I really don't think it's as extreme an example as you think it is. If a condom broke, and I was certain of the BC failure, I would be happy to purchase Plan B (which costs $80 around here, not $49.99 - not that it matters in this situation. Just an observation.). However, there's not always a way to know. "Even if no breakage or slippage is observed, 1–2% of women will test positive for semen residue after intercourse with a condom." The pill has a failure rate of 8%, and the emergency contraceptive Plan B has a failure rate of 11-25% even when taken within 3 days of unprotected sex. If I hadn't had a terrible reaction to it, I'd continue getting the contraceptive implant, which has the lowest failure rate, I believe.


I am nothing if not incredibly careful, but there's always a chance. I even take a pregnancy test every month at my doctor's suggestion because a period doesn't always mean you're not pregnant.


I'm not going to continue this though, because the fact of the matter is all of the people who voted that abortion shouldn't be permitted are saying they don't care about my life without the excuse that they care about the "babies". There is very little chance the fetus would survive on it's own, because the risk to me is far earlier in the pregnancy than the fetus would be able to live on its own. And, honestly, that just hurts.

[Ali]

I find it a bit funny that you're trying to debate a 14 year old Sweeney, who obviously knows very little.
I was just sitting here chuckling and thinking I probably have some eggs older than her, rofl.

All your eggs are older than her.

Hahaha yea! I'm 14, and not doing Biology for GCSE xD
And when I just read through all the posts I realise how silly and stupid they all sound. So I can see why Sweeney is debating with me, especially since most of them don't make much sense. ;D

But I sort of agree with you. Abortion shouldn't be viewed as a get-out-of-pregnancy option. Otherwise what would be the point of protection. People would just go in when they get pregnant and don't want the baby...I also agree with women having a choice, and especially with things like rape etc. But for normal circumstances e.g women get pregnant out of a choice of their own, then I think abortion shouldn't be allowed.

1. I had no choice about sciences at GCSEs, boo you.
2. I'm not entirely sure it would make that much difference to the masses. Abortions aren't an "easy" option, physically, let alone emotionally. I've taken the morning after pill once in my life and the amount of hormones in that didn't do great things for me, I dread to think what the pills for early abortion would do to my body. Repeated surgical procedures that could be avoided, again, I think if possible a lot of people would choose to not go through that. Of course there are the odd people who would think they could always abort but nobody has come into this topic and said they'd choose abortion over contraception. Even the Brits where it can be done for free and relatively easily, none of us are seeing it as anything other than a very last resort.

Rather than revoking the right to abortion, we'd be far better making sure it wasn't necessary in the first place (in most circumstances, obviously health factors can't be helped), better education and availability of contraception to drastically reduce the need for abortions.

[Sweeney]

Um. Not really. It's when the egg has been fertilised and a life or baby starts to grow from that. Because then that baby and life is growing and progressing.

I think, probably, you should refrain from discussing a topic that you know next to nothing about. When the egg has been fertilised, that is a single cell, which is what I just said.

I find it terrifying that you're able to get pregnant, but you're dismally lacking in the understanding of what that actually means.

[Kat]

All your eggs are older than her.

Lol, I was tempted to say that too but that just makes me feel even older.. /sigh /breaks hip

Anyway.. guys, she's 14. I don't think 14 year olds should have concrete opinions about things such as this. I certainly didn't.

Victini, perhaps you should research the topic a bit more before forming an opinion? Out of curiousity, have you had to take a sexual ed class in school yet?
And don't take it personally, hun. It's okay to be pro-life and whatnot, but to debate you must at least be a little more knowledge of the topic.

Edited by Katrinas, 16 March 2011 - 12:20 PM.

[Chloee]

I think, probably, you should refrain from discussing a topic that you know next to nothing about. When the egg has been fertilised, that is a single cell, which is what I just said.

I find it terrifying that you're able to get pregnant, but you're dismally lacking in the understanding of what that actually means.

Okay. Well sorry, but I didn't think I would get into a huge discussion about it. And you're right I don't know much about it, but since I'm still only 14 I will be learning lots between now and 18 or whenever I do or if I become pregnant.




And, about the Science GCSE thing -- We take Science, but I am taking BTEC and not Triple Award so I won't be going into much detail etc.

Also sorry about reposting all that stuff...

[Tarabyte]

Okay. Well sorry, but I didn't think I would get into a huge discussion about it. And you're right I don't know much about it, but since I'm still only 14 I will be learning lots between now and 18 or whenever I do or if I become pregnant.




And, about the Science GCSE thing -- We take Science, but I am taking BTEC and not Triple Award so I won't be going into much detail etc.

Also sorry about reposting all that stuff...

Please don't get pregnant at 18.

[Chloee]

Lol, I was tempted to say that too but that just makes me feel even older.. /sigh /breaks hip

Anyway.. guys, she's 14. I don't think 14 year olds should have concrete opinions about things such as this. I certainly didn't.

Victini, perhaps you should research the topic a bit more before forming an opinion? Out of curiousity, have you had to take a sexual ed class in school yet?
And don't take it personally, hun. It's okay to be pro-life and whatnot, but to debate you must at least be a little more knowledge of the topic.

Lol, thanks! And I don't. If I posted on a General Debate topic in 5 years time, the opinions would probably contradict from when I was 14. And yes we have done sex ed before (quite a few times, even in Year 3&4 I think). Oh and I don't, and I know what you mean about research. However I think my mum would get slightly concerned if she saw I was looking up 'abortion' on Google. xD

Please don't get pregnant at 18.

Lol, I won't. For me that would be really too young...just finish school and immediately have a child to look after...you wouldn't get a break at all in life.

Edited by Victini, 16 March 2011 - 12:26 PM.

[Kat]

Lol, thanks! And I don't. If I posted on a General Debate topic in 5 years time, the opinions would probably contradict from when I was 14. And yes we have done sex ed before (quite a few times). Oh and I don't, and I know what you mean about research. However I think my mum would get slightly concerned if she saw I was looking up 'abortion' on Google. xD

Lol, but just imagine your reply. "But mom, some people on the internet told me to!" Hilarity ensues :3

[Tarabyte]

Lol, thanks! And I don't. If I posted on a General Debate topic in 5 years time, the opinions would probably contradict from when I was 14. And yes we have done sex ed before (quite a few times). Oh and I don't, and I know what you mean about research. However I think my mum would get slightly concerned if she saw I was looking up 'abortion' on Google. xD

I think you should probably look up the basics of fertilization and how a zygote develops first. It's better to understand the basics before you start getting into the moral controversy of abortion.

[Chloee]

Lol, but just imagine your reply. "But mom, some people on the internet told me to!" Hilarity ensues :3

Hahahaha xD
I don't think my mum would find it that amusing though. "We were talking about what to do though!"
That would just make it so much worse.

I think you should probably look up the basics of fertilization and how a zygote develops first. It's better to understand the basics before you start getting into the moral controversy of abortion.

And yea I agree. I think I'll stick to the non-adult discussions. ;D

[Ladida]

Lol, I was tempted to say that too but that just makes me feel even older.. /sigh /breaks hip

Anyway.. guys, she's 14. I don't think 14 year olds should have concrete opinions about things such as this. I certainly didn't.

Victini, perhaps you should research the topic a bit more before forming an opinion? Out of curiousity, have you had to take a sexual ed class in school yet?
And don't take it personally, hun. It's okay to be pro-life and whatnot, but to debate you must at least be a little more knowledge of the topic.

When I was around 10 years old, my mom got pregnant with what should have been her third child. Her doctor told her it would be a high risk pregnancy, because they saw something abnormal with her uterus in the ultrasound. She was offered an abortion, which she decided not to have. Needless to say, she ran into problems, the baby died inside her, and she faced severe medical complications. All of which could have been avoided if she had taken the offered abortion in the first place. That's just one scenario of course. Probably everyone needs to experience something like that before running around screaming to have abortion banned.

You gain wisdom with experience though, so she just needs to be faced with situations where nothing is as black and white as inexperienced people would like to believe.

Edited by Ladida, 16 March 2011 - 12:44 PM.

[Chloee]

When I was around 10 years old, my mom got pregnant with what should have been her third child. Her doctor told her it would be a high risk pregnancy, and because they saw something abnormal with her uterus in the ultrasound. She was offered an abortion, which she decided not to have. Needless to say, she ran into problems, the baby died inside her, and she faced severe medical complications. All of which could have been avoided if she had taken the offered abortion in the first place. That's just one scenario of course. Probably everyone needs to experience something like that before running around screaming to have abortion banned.

You gain wisdom with experience though, so she just needs to be faced with situations where nothing is as black and white as inexperienced people would like to believe.

Yeah, I see what you mean about those experiences. And about the fact of that when you're a child or a teenager everything seems to be either good or bad. I still see some things like that, but others not like that. It all depends on what you've been through in life, I suppose.

Oh, and I'm sorry to hear about your mum having all those difficulties

Edited by Victini, 16 March 2011 - 12:45 PM.

[Ladida]

I will be honest too, and say I don't like it when men voice their pro-life opinions on this issue loudly and proudly.. the feminist in me screams at that. They'll never experience the pain of having a child nor the repercussions.

Ugh, that really gets to me too. Men need to have uteruses before they can dictate what a woman must do with hers.

[Chloee]

Ugh, that really gets to me too. Men need to have uteruses before they can dictate what a woman must do with hers.

Yep! Especially when men whinge and moan about the smallest of things. Or to make it worse, if the wife or a woman is 8 months pregnant too. That would really get on my nerves. Obviously I've never been through it, but I can imagine.

[Ladida]

Yep! Especially when men whinge and moan about the smallest of things. Or to make it worse, if the wife or a woman is 8 months pregnant too. That would really get on my nerves. Obviously I've never been through it, but I can imagine.

Please don't go through that any time soon I saw the most horrifying show about teen moms last night. It was like a runaway train and I couldn't look away.

It was highly disturbing.

[Chloee]

Please don't go through that any time soon I saw the most horrifying show about teen moms last night. It was like a runaway train and I couldn't look away.

It was highly disturbing.

Eurgh. And no I definitely wouldn't. I wouldn't even have a child until I was married, and in a settled place where I know I could look after the child.
I know 1 person who had to have an abortion before, because she had a one night stand at the age of 11, and it still repeats on her, and she feels so guilty. Plus she never wants to have the sex ed classes since it would just make her feel so...not horrible...but weird inside. And I would never want to go through that.