563 replies to this topic

[Sweeney]

unlawful premeditated killing of a human being by a human being thats the definition of murder. Aliveness is the point

"Unlawful" can't be a part of the definition for murder, because it's circular.
Why is this illegal? Because it's murder!
Why is this murder? Because it's illegal!

What it is, is a poorly considered, poorly evidenced, irrational position.

The point under contention is when a developing embryo becomes human. That is a hugely complex and difficult question to answer. Reducing it down to "when it has a heartbeat" is pathetic, callous, and above all, unjustified.

[California]

I find it offensive that you would think that my life wouldn't be affected if I got someone pregnant.

As a singular example, if I got someone pregnant because I were tricked, not only would I consider my life to be dramatically affected, but I would also argue that I have a stake in the matter.

Don't take it that way. The truth is you don't have a choice, even if you're the father and want the child. It's the woman's decision and even when taken to court, it generally works out in her favor because it is her body after all.

I know it affects both parties, at the same time the choice lies in the mother.

Edited by California, 25 February 2011 - 02:29 PM.

[Warriors]

An another note what about the population if we had to many abortions then we wouldnt have a sustainable new generation

What sustainable new generation? If anything we need more abortions. The human population is too great. And the way its going, supposedly by 2050, 9 Billion people and none if very little resources. Quite frankly, the limited resources on this Earth cannot hold that much more. We are consistently using more and more resources as centuries go by.

[netstat]

An another note what about the population if we had to many abortions then we wouldnt have a sustainable new generation

"Earth's population will be forced to colonise two planets within 50 years if natural resources continue to be exploited at the current rate, according to a report out this week. A study by the World Wildlife Fund (WWF), to be released on Tuesday, warns that the human race is plundering the planet at a pace that outstrips its capacity to support life."

- http://www.guardian..../research.waste


Maybe that isn't such a bad thing?

[Sweeney]

It cute that you have such a raging e-boner for me.

And really, I don't see you standing up for anyone... you're just in here lol'ing at other people's opinions and trying to pick fights with people. This is already a sensitive subject for many of us, I don't see why you have to intentionally make it worse.

I only "lol" at stupid people's opinions in an essentially irrelevant debate topic.
You can bet your ignorant little backside that I would be more than willing to stand up and defend these principles with unparalleled passion and eloquence in a formal setting if so required.

What's cute is your inability to defend your arguments, instead making cheap (and ineffective) shots at the gender of the participants.

[Roxi]

This is not a court case. This is a debate. Therefore, everyone's opinion matters.

[Sweeney]

This is not a court case. This is a debate. Therefore, everyone's opinion matters.

Some more than others.

Every time you respond to my posts I'm imagining you softly whispering, "I love you Cali..." in my ear.

So that's pretty much "Case Closed" on that one then.

Not a single jot of substantiated defense.

[imasramma]

Ok what about the fact that an abortion would cost alot of money and many people cant afford one so what? they go broke cause of a mistake?

[Sweeney]

Ok what about the fact that an abortion would cost alot of money and many people cant afford one so what? they go broke cause of a mistake?

Because a baby is super cheap, of course.

Though, truthfully, I don't know about adoption, I'd imagine the hospital bills through term are significantly more substantial.

[netstat]

Ok what about the fact that an abortion would cost alot of money and many people cant afford one so what? they go broke cause of a mistake?

Step 1:A college girl get's pregnant.
Step 2: She spends 500$ to get rid of her baby and in return finishes college.
Step 3: She finishes college (1 million dollar value AVG over the span of the AVG lifetime)
Step 4: ???
Step 5: Profit

[Roxi]

Ok what about the fact that an abortion would cost alot of money and many people cant afford one so what? they go broke cause of a mistake?

http://www.fwhc.org/abortion/flyer.htm

I'll leave this here for you.

[jcrdude]

Don't take it that way. The truth is you don't have a choice, even if you're the father and want the child. It's the woman's decision and even when taken to court, it generally works out in her favor because it is her body after all.

I know it affects both parties, at the same time the choice lies in the mother.

At the same time, I do have a choice. I may not be able to lay down the final decision, but as a person who may well have a stake in the matter, it is important that I be able to not only have an opinion on the matter, but also substantiate it.

Unless the mother is a callus and uncaring person, my opinion on the matter may well be an important factor should such an issue arise.

Therefore, it is my duty to become informed, form an opinion, and be able to back up my opinion with sound reasoning.

And this is all being said without ever truly giving my opinion on the matter. This is a very gray area and it would be unwise of me to form a blanket opinion and expect everyone to adhere to it.

[Waser Lave]

Ok what about the fact that an abortion would cost alot of money and many people cant afford one so what? they go broke cause of a mistake?

The debate over who should have the responsibility for financing abortions would be an entirely separate topic with its own diverse issues.

[imasramma]

Step 1:A college girl get's pregnant.
Step 2: She spends 500$ to get rid of her baby and in return finishes college.
Step 3: She finishes college (1 million dollar value AVG over the span of the AVG lifetime)
Step 4: ???
Step 5: Profit

after removing a child i doubt she will ever go back to college many people dont ever return to college after an abortion

[jaredennisclark]

The point under contention is when a developing embryo becomes human.

I personally could care less about a line of demarcation between an embryo and a human.

What I believe should matter are such things as rationality, self-consciousness, awareness, and a capacity for pain/pleasure.

It would be entirely situation-dependent, but I support a woman's choice to abort at any stage of pregnancy, and even after pregnancy.

[netstat]

after removing a child i doubt she will ever go back to college many people dont ever return to college after an abortion

Link to statistics?

[netstat]

I personally could care less about a line of demarcation between an embryo and a human.

What I believe should matter are such things as rationality, self-consciousness, awareness, and a capacity for pain/pleasure.

It would be entirely situation-dependent, but I support a woman's choice to abort at any stage of pregnancy, and even after pregnancy.

LOL! "I brought you into this world, I CAN TAKE YOU OUT"

[Sweeney]

I personally could care less about a line of demarcation between an embryo and a human.

What I believe should matter are such things as rationality, self-consciousness, awareness, and a capacity for pain/pleasure.

Those things are essentially what I meant by "human".

[jaredennisclark]

Those things are essentially what I meant by "human".

Fair enough. I should have clarified, but my post wasn't directed specifically towards you. I found that quoted bit to be a nice point to pop-in and voice my personal opinion.

[jcrdude]

after removing a child i doubt she will ever go back to college many people dont ever return to college after an abortion

I, too, would love to see statistics backing this up. It's cool if you want to throw around baseless statistics elsewhere, but I would like to see some semblance of logical/critical thinking shown in the debate section.

I would like to think that we hold this section to a higher standard.

...That said, this applies to everyone... and if we continue to senselessly bicker without carrying ideas to full term, I'm going to start aborting posts.

[Waser Lave]

...That said, this applies to everyone... and if we continue to senselessly bicker without carrying ideas to full term, I'm going to start aborting posts.

I see what you did there.

[Tarabyte]

Because a baby is super cheap, of course.

Though, truthfully, I don't know about adoption, I'd imagine the hospital bills through term are significantly more substantial.

This is something I know from personal experience:
My doctor's bill (just office visits) was about $8,000.
My hospital stay (Delivery, & 3 days) was about $10,000.

I agree. I don't think that the average $300 cost of an abortion can be compared to the $18,000 you rack up even if you put the child up for adoption.

[imasramma]

If a young women were to have sex do you think she should have the choice of the abortion or should the parents have the complete and total say

[Tarabyte]

after removing a child i doubt she will ever go back to college many people dont ever return to college after an abortion

Every person I know who was in school when they had an abortion continued school after the abortion.

Every person I know who was in school when they had a baby didn't return to school.

[Sweeney]

If a young women were to have sex do you think she should have the choice of the abortion or should the parents have the complete and total say

In the majority of cases, I think the parents should only be able to override the wishes of the daughter in cases of medical need.
But again, as every sensible person in the thread has said, it depends on the circumstances.