90 replies to this topic

[Melchoire]

I've been seriously considering becoming vegetarian lately. I've always thought about it but a few days ago I started researching and watching videos.The way agribusiness slaughter houses run makes me sick that I'm eating animals who were treated so poorly. I remember in pakistan if we wanted chicken we went to a little store where they butchered right there for you. It was a quick death, the head came right off. Cows were usually restrained and their necks were cut starting at the jugular so to make it faster. We never bought pre-packaged frozen meat. I could eat those animal without feeling guilty. They were usually raised on farms then brought to the city then slaughtered.

Modern slaughterhouses have set procedures but often times things do go wrong. Cattle and steer are meant to be unconscious before they're cut but sometimes without sufficient amperage the animals are completely alive during the slaughter. I'm not sure just how often it happens. I dont' want to take animal right's group's word for it since it's probably biased. Chicken are pretty much assembly line units. Its so still fucked to think that what you're eating was skinned, scalded and slaughtered alive. They don't even live their lives properly. They're basically breed to die. I know male chicks on egg farms are immediately killed after hatching. >_< Kosher slaughterhouses are required to kill animals while they're still alive because of the religious code.

Warning: very graphic and disturbing

This is an example of the kosher slaughter process:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdJwdJ_SR6g


I don't advocate peta but this video is relevant(i think thats Alec Baldwin):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIjanhKqVC4


imo, there is a moral way to kill and eat animals. It's a natural part of life. But modern slaughter processes aren't something I can support or stand behind.

[Sweeney]

Vegetarianism will not improve the standards in slaughter houses.

The more people turn vegetarian in protest, the lower their profits will be, and the more corners they will be forced to cut in order to make ends meet.
Vegetarianism hurts animals.

Further, if everyone became vegetarian, there would be no reason to keep domesticated animals alive (aside, I suppose, from dairy cows and the odd breeding bull).
The only specimens that would remain would be in zoos.
The population would be decimated.

[Melchoire]

Vegetarianism will not improve the standards in slaughter houses.

The more people turn vegetarian in protest, the lower their profits will be, and the more corners they will be forced to cut in order to make ends meet.
Vegetarianism hurts animals.

Further, if everyone became vegetarian, there would be no reason to keep domesticated animals alive (aside, I suppose, from dairy cows and the odd breeding bull).
The only specimens that would remain would be in zoos.
The population would be decimated.

Supporting the meat industry hurts them more. And I'm sure that no farm has ever felt the gouge of vegetarianism in their profits.

[Sweeney]

And I'm sure that no farm has ever felt the gouge of vegetarianism in their profits.

So you agree that your protest is irrelevant?

[WakaWaka]

Its kinda like my take on religion..
Do what makes you happy as long as its not illegal by law,but dont forcefully shove what you believe into others.

To be honest, it doesnt really matter to me how my meat was killed.
As long as its edible and not double dead preferably.

[Melchoire]

So you agree that your protest is irrelevant?

Lulz, I knew that sounded weird when I posted it.

[Adina]

I tried watching the second video, but I couldn't really. I love animals, and I was pretty much in denial about slaughter houses. Simply because I like the taste of chicken (I don't eat beef or pork.) I think after this, I'm going to give vegetarianism another attempt. Whether or not it makes a difference, I don't want to know that I'm eating something that was tortured it's whole life. Especially since for the first 6 or so years of my life I lived on a farm with my grandparents. This is disgusting.

[Turtleboy]

Vegans =/= Vegetarians

I don't really understand vegetarians who will eat milk, eggs, etc.
Either way, in most cases - these animals are born and bred with a specific goal to accomplish - that being to service us humans. I don't really seeing the difference in fattening up cows so they can be slaughtered and turned into Big Macs ( which taste amazing incidentally ) or keeping them cramped in stalls to get milk out of them.
In both cases, the animals are deprived of their so called "freedom" to service us so who cares in what way we're being serviced.

I respect the nobility of vegans who are willing to give up so much due to how badly the animals are treated. However noble that may be, I don't think I can go long without eating meat/animal products for long.
I tried to be a vegetarian for a while in high school. Needless to say, I couldn't take it. Too weak willed

[Ali]

Take much the same standpoint as I do with religion, if it's not pushed on me, then I have no issue with it.

I'm a vegetarian and have been for years simply because I dislike the taste of meat. Can't stand the texture of meat no matter how it's cooked. I have no ethical issues about eating meat though and really couldn't care less about what other people do about their diets.

[Roxi]

Yeah, it pretty much only matters to the person making the choice. It's up to you whether you want to go vegan or not. I don't agree with how these slaughter houses run, but I'm not going to stop eating meat. As long as it's dead and not going to kill me too, then I'm ok.

[Gee]

If vegans don't push their views on me and are respectful (this means they won't lecture me or whatever if I'm eating a juicy burger in their face) then it's all cool. If you're cool with me, I'm cool with you.
I wish I had enough will-power to be vegan.

[redlion]

I'm vegetarian. I eat fish some times, and occasionally other seafood. But honestly, my reasons are similar to Ali's. I don't like the taste of meat, or the texture, or the thought of putting a mammal's flesh in my mouth.

In general I don't even mention it to people. The only time I'll say something is if the conversation rolls to
"I'm hungry."
"How about BBQ?"
"Great!"
in which case I'd be having a glass of water for the meal.

I disagree with you Joe, about vegetarians hurting animals. Withholding your financial support from a company is the only way to tell them that you don't like what they're doing. Putting money in their pockets gives them no incentive to change their methodology. I don't know how you've twisted your logic, but the conscious choice to not eat meat cannot directly result in more animal suffering than remaining a carnivore.

[Powerrrr]

You eat what you want, I eat what I want.

I don't care about the modern slaughterhouse. If it wasn't for it, there would be more people starving in the world.

[Sweeney]

I don't know how you've twisted your logic, but the conscious choice to not eat meat cannot directly result in more animal suffering than remaining a carnivore.

Sure it can.

The fact is that unless the protesters reach a critical mass of revenue lost, that the companies cannot recoup by cutting corners and reducing costs, the suffering of animals will increase in proportion to the number of vegetarians.

The best way to promote ethical treatment of animals, is to support companies who have ethical farming policies.

[MKB]

Farming ethics isn't the same as slaughterhouse ethics, it's not necessarily how they grow up that vegetarians care about, it's the way they are killed - and the way they are killed in slaughterhouses is to make the meat better quality and to make the animals death quick.  Not only that, but it's a better choice environmentally and economically.

You could have farmers who feed their cattle fresh grown grass everyday and they are outside their entire lifes, but when it comes to killing the cow, they can be as brutal as the slaughterhouse video depicts (although those videos kind of show extreme slaughterhouses).

[MsRose]

I was completely vegan for a year. No milk, no eggs, no meat. Surprisingly I felt much healthier than when I wasn't vegan. I was vegan simply because I wanted to be. I feel bad killing bugs. I don't understand why I should get to choose what lives and dies for me. So, my pet cat can live but the cow can be shot in the head with a bolt cause I'm hungry. Personally though, I don't feel like I should ever have to defend why I don't eat meat. I'm not shoving it in everyone's face or trying to force others to convert. I just don't like death. I don't like killing. I avoid invovling myself in something I believe to be fundamentally again my morals.

Redlion I was actually the same way. People get incredibly stupid when they find out you don't eat meat. They'll eat a bigmac and go "mmmm this is SO tasty. MMMM. You want a bite?".

Sweeney I think you have a point, but I don't think it's completely truthful. Companies will always cut corners for the largest profit. I'm sure if they realized a way to do it even cheaper they wouldn't hesitate. Besides that it's simple business basically. If you are loosing 50% of profit due to unhappy customers and it would only take you 10% of your gross profits to make those customers happy it's not a difficult decision.

[Sweeney]

Farming ethics isn't the same as slaughterhouse ethics, it's not necessarily how they grow up that vegetarians care about, it's the way they are killed - and the way they are killed in slaughterhouses is to make the meat better quality and to make the animals death quick.  Not only that, but it's a better choice environmentally and economically.

You could have farmers who feed their cattle fresh grown grass everyday and they are outside their entire lifes, but when it comes to killing the cow, they can be as brutal as the slaughterhouse video depicts (although those videos kind of show extreme slaughterhouses).

I think it's fairly obvious that I was using "ethical farming methods" as an umbrella term covering the slaughtering method, among other things.
If that wasn't clear for you, I'm sorry that you never learned proper reading comprehension, and I'm happy to have clarified it for you.

Your attempt to be a smartass is an unmitigated failure.

Sweeney I think you have a point, but I don't think it's completely truthful. Companies will always cut corners for the largest profit. I'm sure if they realized a way to do it even cheaper they wouldn't hesitate. Besides that it's simple business basically. If you are loosing 50% of profit due to unhappy customers and it would only take you 10% of your gross profits to make those customers happy it's not a difficult decision.

Yeah... that's actually what I said.
Until the profit lost over ethical considerations reaches the point where it exceeds the cost of reforming the farming/slaughtering methods, then it will only hurt the animals more.

I'm not sure why I'm having to repeat myself. It's not a difficult concept.

[MiladyM]

Ofcourse they try to do it the cheapest way possible. But it will get even worse if they dont have enough people wanting the products, I guess.
I got a vegan friend aswell and I dont feel the need to make fun out of it eventhough I dont agree with it at all. However you shouldnt take it so serious when people try to make fun of you. It's what people do, im quite sure you can get back at them somehow if you feel the need. People act the same about religion, diets, scares and sooo on. Come on, its fun trying to mess with others!

Edit: error error.

Edited by Milady, 20 September 2010 - 05:20 AM.

[luvsmyncis]

I've thought about becoming a vegetarian, but then I thought about the poor defenseless carrots being plucked from their happy homes in the warm soil of the land and I was so SO sad until my mom took me to Applebee's where I had a nice juicy steak dinner. It was phenomenal. 

Your attempt to be a smartass is an unmitigated failure.

How'd I do?

[MsRose]

I'm not sure why I'm having to repeat myself. It's not a difficult concept.

Because I'm retarded. Excuse me sir Sweeney. I shall never trouble you with my stupidity again.

p.s I didn't read all the way down. Just got home from work and am sleepy.

Edited by MsRose, 20 September 2010 - 05:25 AM.

[MiladyM]

I've thought about becoming a vegetarian, but then I thought about the poor defenseless carrots being plucked from their happy homes in the warm soil of the land and I was so SO sad until my mom took me to Applebee's where I had a nice juicy steak dinner. It was phenomenal.

Wow yeah I didnt even take the poor veggies in consideration. Thanks for reminding me.

[Sweeney]

How'd I do?

Success, as always.
Disappointing lack of gifs though.

p.s I didn't read all the way down. Just got home from work and am sleepy.

Well, replying to a topic that you haven't read the entirety of is a little daft.

[MKB]

Sorry, but using "farming ethics" as an umbrella to cover two completely different stages in the process is dumb.  You don't see me pointing out over-exaggerations in your arguments and calling you a "failure" but I digress.  I apologize that English is my third language and I may not have a grasp on whatever terms you come up with, but that doesn't mean you're right (sorry, but you cannot use a term loosely to cover different topics in different situations irrelevant to the actual debate, hur dur).

Further, if everyone became vegetarian, there would be no reason to keep domesticated animals alive

Because we all know that cats, dogs, hamsters, birds, snakes, etc, are all bred to satisfy peoples meat cravings.

The fact is that unless the protesters reach a critical mass of revenue lost, that the companies cannot recoup by cutting corners and reducing costs, the suffering of animals will increase in proportion to the number of vegetarians.

If more people became vegetarians, they would be processing less meat because there would be less demand for it, rather than cutting corners (which they can't really do, the next stage would be to just have a guillotine behead all animals, but that's just cheaper and not really cutting corners, it's more effective).  Eventually, if everyone in that area did become vegetarians, they would either supply to a more demanding area or sell it to foreign countries.   It wouldn't make animals "suffer" any more than they already did, just less of them would, or perhaps more when they start shipping to a more profitable area.

Don't know why you took the original question out of context, it was originally "what do you think of veganism" not "if everyone was a vegan animals would suffer more".  Although all your information is wrong on how business works for slaughterhouse owners (you have no relation to any meat industries at all, do you?), you still insist on trying to prove you're somewhat right.

[Faval]

I've thought about becoming a vegetarian, but then I thought about the poor defenseless carrots being plucked from their happy homes in the warm soil of the land and I was so SO sad until my mom took me to Applebee's where I had a nice juicy steak dinner. It was phenomenal.

Oh that poor poor carrot. Then again I wonder if it's capable of feeling pain.

Anyway back on topic, going vegetarian/vegan is like doing a silent protest against the meat industry. It doesn't really do much since a lot of people are still going to eat meat no matter what you show them. Even if you show them something from Food Inc and etc where cows are slaughtered with poop all over them and processed into the meat.

Edited by Faval, 20 September 2010 - 06:25 AM.

[skinnjazz]

I was a vegan for almost a year, and i've been a vegetarian for 5. i seriously don't think that the relative handful of vegetarians in the world will have any impact on the meat industry, because god knows there are more than enough people buying meat.

for me. it's a personal thing. i would never kill an animal, therefore, i don't eat animals.

i've milked cows before, so i drink milk. i collected eggs, so i eat eggs (only from certain farms).

i think too many people argue that, "well, one person won't make an impact, so why should i even bother".

i think, if you know what goes on in the meat industry and you want to continue eating meat anyway, then go for it - it's your choice. but i do think people need to make educated decisions...