90 replies to this topic

[MsRose]

Clearly you know nothing about me if you believe that I think Sweeney is Always right....

lol sorry Iargue. I didn't mean that you specifically always agree with him. I just mean that he's good at debate and people tend to sway in the direction he argues for. Honestly, I don't have anyone specifically in mind. I more less just wanted to point out the power of good debating skills.

[MKB]

chicken eggs we eat are unfertilized

Nope, they are just at the very initial stage of their development when they are taken away from nests that keep them warm. Any egg with an egg yolk contains an embyro of a chicken, so basically, every egg from a chicken is fertilised

[Trichomes]

Nope, they are just at the very initial stage of their development when they are taken away from nests that keep them warm. Any egg with an egg yolk contains an embyro of a chicken, so basically, every egg from a chicken is fertilised

"Most commercially produced chicken eggs intended for human consumption are unfertilized, since the laying hens are kept without roosters. Fertile eggs can be purchased and eaten as well, with little nutritional difference. Fertile eggs will not contain a developed embryo, as refrigeration prohibits cellular growth for an extended amount of time (although sometimes the embryo is allowed to develop on purpose, as in balut)."

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Egg_(food)

"An egg yolk is a part of an egg which feeds the developing embryo. The egg yolk is suspended in the egg white (known alternatively as albumen or glair/glaire) by one or two spiral bands of tissue called the chalazae. Prior to fertilization, the yolk together with the germinal disc is a single cell; one of the few single cells that can be seen by the naked eye."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitellus

[RealRacingFan]

Nope, they are just at the very initial stage of their development when they are taken away from nests that keep them warm. Any egg with an egg yolk contains an embyro of a chicken, so basically, every egg from a chicken is fertilised

If we ate fertilized chicken eggs, some of us would see very tiny developing chickens in our meals.....and if the eggs were in the grocery store while the chick was developing, the chick would die.....So not such a good breakfast.

[jcrdude]

Veganism is murder.

Killing those poor defenseless plants.

[MKB]

Even if an egg isn't fertilised, you're still eating the embryo. I guess I worded what I was trying to say wrongly, I was trying to say in essence, you're still eating the baby. Fertilised or not by a rooster, it's still there, it just won't develop. You're still, potentially, causing the death of an animal by eating the eggs, which is what I don't understand about vegetarians.

some of us would see very tiny developing chickens in our meals.....and if the eggs were in the grocery store while the chick was developing, the chick would die

No, the embryo stops growth when refrigerated (which they often are almost instantaniously, except in some delicacies) so that would never happen (although, I'm sure if you left it for a very long period of time, probably after it's actually edible, it could happen).

[RealRacingFan]

Even if an egg isn't fertilised, you're still eating the embryo. I guess I worded what I was trying to say wrongly, I was trying to say in essence, you're still eating the baby. Fertilised or not by a rooster, it's still there, it just won't develop. You're still, potentially, causing the death of an animal by eating the eggs, which is what I don't understand about vegetarians.

Ok, so this was a misunderstanding. What I'm trying to say is that you might be eating a partially developed chick, not just the tiny white speck within the embryo lol. I'm not an expert on eggs lol. So please don't flame me

[Adina]

Even if an egg isn't fertilised, you're still eating the embryo. I guess I worded what I was trying to say wrongly, I was trying to say in essence, you're still eating the baby. Fertilised or not by a rooster, it's still there, it just won't develop. You're still, potentially, causing the death of an animal by eating the eggs, which is what I don't understand about vegetarians.

It's not like it won't develop because you're putting it in the fridge, the reason it wouldn't develop is because they're not fertilized. An unfertilized egg that you are eating would never ever possibly become a chick. There's no killing of a potential life, because the egg is NOT FERTILE. Where's the logic?

Edited by tr0picana, 21 September 2010 - 06:45 PM.

[Trichomes]

It's not like it won't develop because you're putting it in the fridge, the reason it wouldn't develop is because they're not fertilized. An unfertilized egg that you are eating would never ever possibly become a chick. There's no killing of a potential life, because the egg is NOT FERTILE. Where's the logic?

THANK YOU!!

An unfertilized egg is a single sex cell, NOT an embryo.

[Brennon]

I'm vegetarian. I eat fish some times, and occasionally other seafood. But honestly, my reasons are similar to Ali's. I don't like the taste of meat, or the texture, or the thought of putting a mammal's flesh in my mouth.

In general I don't even mention it to people. The only time I'll say something is if the conversation rolls to
"I'm hungry."
"How about BBQ?"
"Great!"
in which case I'd be having a glass of water for the meal.

I disagree with you Joe, about vegetarians hurting animals. Withholding your financial support from a company is the only way to tell them that you don't like what they're doing. Putting money in their pockets gives them no incentive to change their methodology. I don't know how you've twisted your logic, but the conscious choice to not eat meat cannot directly result in more animal suffering than remaining a carnivore.

What about BBQed veggies they are quite nummy in my opinion

[Adina]

THANK YOU!!

An unfertilized egg is a single sex cell, NOT an embryo.

For a second I felt like I was wrong, but I rationally thought about it. It's like saying a woman's baby will die when there was no sperm to create life in the first place.

[MKB]

And how do you not know these eggs are not fertilised? Because wikipedia says so? Although dairy farming isn't my family's area of expertise, it's common knowledge that hens lay eggs faster in the presence of a rooster, so for all you know, that rooster that was around could have fertilised them.

Still, doesn't really change the fact that you're potentially eating an animal. Just cause it may not be fertilised doesn't change the fact that the idea of eating an unborn chicken does not bother the majority of vegetarians, which kind of eliminates the entire point of being one.

[Melchoire]

And how do you not know these eggs are not fertilised? Because wikipedia says so? Although dairy farming isn't my family's area of expertise, it's common knowledge that hens lay eggs faster in the presence of a rooster, so for all you know, that rooster that was around could have fertilised them.

Still, doesn't really change the fact that you're potentially eating an animal. Just cause it may not be fertilised doesn't change the fact that the idea of eating an unborn chicken does not bother the majority of vegetarians, which kind of eliminates the entire point of being one.

High production egg farms kill the male chickens and only keep the hens around. If you've seen the way they're kept in those cages they don't get the chance to mate with roosters, if one were to even get past the sexing process. So 99.9% of the time the egg contains no embryo.

This is what a typical egg farm looks like:



Not a lot of room for mating there...

[MsRose]

Even if an egg isn't fertilised, you're still eating the embryo. I guess I worded what I was trying to say wrongly, I was trying to say in essence, you're still eating the baby. Fertilised or not by a rooster, it's still there, it just won't develop. You're still, potentially, causing the death of an animal by eating the eggs, which is what I don't understand about vegetarians.

That's a pretty far stretch though. It's not like an egg has feelings or can be scared of dying. I think a better argument would be that the hens that lay those eggs are suffering far worse than those who have been killed.

[Sweeney]

Nope, they are just at the very initial stage of their development when they are taken away from nests that keep them warm. Any egg with an egg yolk contains an embyro of a chicken, so basically, every egg from a chicken is fertilised

I'm sorry, but that's utter bollocks.
I wonder if you'd care to explain how the eggs my chickens lay are fertilised, since we don't have a cockerel?

Hens lay one egg per day. No more, no less (except in the case of illness), regardless of the presence of a rooster.

[Ali]

Even if an egg isn't fertilised, you're still eating the embryo. I guess I worded what I was trying to say wrongly, I was trying to say in essence, you're still eating the baby. Fertilised or not by a rooster, it's still there, it just won't develop. You're still, potentially, causing the death of an animal by eating the eggs, which is what I don't understand about vegetarians.

By that logic, I'm causing the death of potential humans simply by ageing. Doesn't mean I'm advocating the murder of actual humans...

I'm sorry, but that's utter bollocks.
I wonder if you'd care to explain how the eggs my chickens lay are fertilised, since we don't have a cockerel?

Hens lay one egg per day. No more, no less (except in the case of illness), regardless of the presence of a rooster.

Oh chickens. <3 We used to have bantams when I still lived at home and I loved them so much. The minute me and the Boy make it out of London, I want chickens.

[onlyme]

i'm a vegetarian since i'm 10 years old. at that age i got to know why there are cows and pigs and stuff on the fields around us... i don't like eggs much, but if i need them to bake or cook, i got them from a farmer, where all the animals have a good life and live how animals should live. i know that there are eggs and milk nearly in all the food you can buy from the supermarket. so i can't totally avoid not eating anything from animals that have a bad life, unfortunately. well, we have our own garden, where we plant a lot of fruit, vegetables and herbs. that's what i eat most of the time. we also bake our own bread most of the time. i simply like to know where my food comes from. like i said, it's hard to totally avoid eating anything that comes from animals living in bad situations, but i'm doing my best to do so.

Edited by onlyme, 22 September 2010 - 05:18 AM.

[Faval]

And how do you not know these eggs are not fertilised? Because wikipedia says so? Although dairy farming isn't my family's area of expertise, it's common knowledge that hens lay eggs faster in the presence of a rooster, so for all you know, that rooster that was around could have fertilised them.

Still, doesn't really change the fact that you're potentially eating an animal. Just cause it may not be fertilised doesn't change the fact that the idea of eating an unborn chicken does not bother the majority of vegetarians, which kind of eliminates the entire point of being one.

Well the potential for that egg to become an animal is relatively zero. That unfertilized egg that comes out has no chance of being fertilized anymore.

This is really besides the point, but neither dolphins nor whales are actually fish...

My point is, humans do whatever the hell they want to animals and nothing will change that unless animals evolve to the point where they're like...super man version of animals.

This is Balut - Fertilized egg when eaten.

Edited by Faval, 22 September 2010 - 05:30 AM.

[redlion]

Fish are farmed too. We just don't associate them with being loveable like a pretty cow or adorable little baby chicken so we don't give a fuck about their 'feelings'.
But I will agree with you that OMG THEY ARE DELICIOUS.

True, fish are farmed. But I assert that there is far less suffering on a fish farm than on any land animal farm. As long as they're fed, what could a fish complain about? There are no fences - they swim free.

Loves me some fish.

Technically, it's a name and basic English would dictate that a capital letter is due.

Ha. Technically, smecnically. The whole point of a proper noun is that the name signifies nothing but it's attributed subject - me. Who are you (or anyone) to tell me how to refer to myself? Fucker

This is really besides the point, but neither dolphins nor whales are actually fish...

This is what I meant in my earlier post. Since there's a name for a "vegetarian" who eats fish, more people should use it. However, I disagree with the egg thing. The chicken eggs we eat are unfertilized, with no chance of ever becoming a baby chicken since fertilization takes place internally, so we're essentially just eating a cell. That's almost like considering the consumption of semen unethical.

Hahaha. +1 for the consumption of semen.

[Milodar]

I don't get the point of vegetarianism/veganism if you're doing it to 'make a point'. Nobody cares that you're not eating meat or other animal products, nobody will change there ways thinking, "Oh... he's right... damn our imperfections in life." That being said, it doesn't really affect me, except that now there will be 1 more steak in the frozen meat section. More for me.

Oh, on Eggs: You're not eating a living animal, or an embryo. It's not fertilized. But if you're becoming a vegetarian because you don't want to stand behind slaughtering practices... Do you know how much chickens suffer in egg farms? A lot. It's disgusting. That picture a few posts back is a prime example, but they do actually get worse than that. They pack the chickens as closely together as possible and just let them lay eggs like crazy. They pack food into them to keep them nice, fat, and fertile so they can keep laying and laying and laying. That's why if you're going to become a Vegetarian because you "don't believe in the suffering of animals" you might as well go full vegan. Pretty much any product coming from an animal is produced with the suffering of that animal.


Also, I think there's some confusion here. Vegetarian/Vegan is not the same thing.

Vegetarian: Doesn't directly eat meat of any animal
Vegan: Doesn't eat meat, and doesn't eat any product coming from an animal, and doesn't use any product from an animal (milk, eggs, honey, cotton, etc)

Technically both don't eat fish, but a lot of vegetarians do eat fish.

[redlion]

I don't get the point of vegetarianism/veganism if you're doing it to 'make a point'. Nobody cares that you're not eating meat or other animal products, nobody will change there ways thinking, "Oh... he's right... damn our imperfections in life." That being said, it doesn't really affect me, except that now there will be 1 more steak in the frozen meat section. More for me.

Oh, on Eggs: You're not eating a living animal, or an embryo. It's not fertilized. But if you're becoming a vegetarian because you don't want to stand behind slaughtering practices... Do you know how much chickens suffer in egg farms? A lot. It's disgusting. That picture a few posts back is a prime example, but they do actually get worse than that. They pack the chickens as closely together as possible and just let them lay eggs like crazy. They pack food into them to keep them nice, fat, and fertile so they can keep laying and laying and laying. That's why if you're going to become a Vegetarian because you "don't believe in the suffering of animals" you might as well go full vegan. Pretty much any product coming from an animal is produced with the suffering of that animal.


Also, I think there's some confusion here. Vegetarian/Vegan is not the same thing.

Vegetarian: Doesn't directly eat meat of any animal
Vegan: Doesn't eat meat, and doesn't eat any product coming from an animal, and doesn't use any product from an animal (milk, eggs, honey, cotton, etc)

Technically both don't eat fish, but a lot of vegetarians do eat fish.

You are correct about most of what you said. I'm just wondering why a vegan wouldn't use cotton

[Frizzle]

Ha. Technically, smecnically. The whole point of a proper noun is that the name signifies nothing but it's attributed subject - me. Who are you (or anyone) to tell me how to refer to myself? Fucker

The descendant of the person who invented the language you speak, that's who. Now I'll ask your advice on drinking Guiness but good golly I will not take grammar advice from a yankie-doodle.

[Adina]

In the case that people are saying that if you don't eat meat, you might as well not eat anything animal related because all the animals go through abuse; I guess in my opinion, it's a matter of how many sacrifices I would make for the animals. Although I won't support the meat industry, I won't give up eggs and milk ect. Although I care a lot about animals, I love food. I can live without meat, but I can't live comfortably knowing I have to constantly check what I'm eating. My willpower isn't the greatest, but I'll do as much as I personally can to not be a part of animal slaughter. =\

Edited by tr0picana, 22 September 2010 - 04:03 PM.

[redlion]

The descendant of the person who invented the language you speak, that's who. Now I'll ask your advice on drinking Guiness but good golly I will not take grammar advice from a yankie-doodle.

Bah. Grammar is for wankers. When I make it to England we'll have to throw back a few pints. With Guinness - make carbombs. End of.

[sonic]

lol sorry Iargue. I didn't mean that you specifically always agree with him. I just mean that he's good at debate and people tend to sway in the direction he argues for. Honestly, I don't have anyone specifically in mind. I more less just wanted to point out the power of good debating skills.

He is usually wrong. But this time he is not.