111 replies to this topic

[HannahElizabeth]

Sadly, I don't see what searching the apartment will accomplish.

It may save several lives if he has a timed device in there (from what I understand, he lived in a block of flats).

This awful event has been high on the UK news, too. Very sad day.

How are children that young even allowed into a movie like TDKR? Why is no one talking about this?

It's not quite up there with a bunch of cinema goers getting shot though, is it? Priorities, and all that.

Edited by HannahElizabeth, 21 July 2012 - 03:16 PM.

[Habanero]

Why did you quote that part of my post then?

And Lobbying is part of whats wrong with this country, it ties into the fact that this shit happens.

Must've deleted the rest by accident.

Lobbying is a double-edged sword.

[Ladida]

It's not quite up there with a bunch of cinema goers getting shot though, is it? Priorities, and all that.

True, but suddenly it seems acceptable to do stupid things as long as something tragic occurs.

[Waser Lave]

But anyway, the kicker is that the fiance put his baby down, then abandoned his baby son, wounded fiancee and fiancee's daughter and hightailed it out of there to save his own ass. Wow.

Other online sources say he didn't just get out of the theatre, he hopped into his car and drove away.

Interview of him explaining himself on CNN: http://kollegekidd.c...heatre-shooting

I thought that seemed a bit strange when I read that he dropped his baby on the floor to jump over the balcony and escape...and then she goes and agrees to marry him. I can't work out which of them are the most stupid.

He's lucky a stranger did what he should have done and helped them all to get out (taking a bullet himself in the process).

[iargue]

I thought that seemed a bit strange when I read that he dropped his baby on the floor to jump over the balcony and escape...and then she goes and agrees to marry him. I can't work out which of them are the most stupid.

He's lucky a stranger did what he should have done and helped them all to get out (taking a bullet himself in the process).

Obviously the girl is the stupid one. The guy got a girl that doesn't give a shit if he abandons her in the time need, and puts out. She got a guy who will ditch her at any time and leave her with a bunch of kids.

[luvsmyncis]

But anyway, the kicker is that the fiance put his baby down, then abandoned his baby son, wounded fiancee and fiancee's daughter and hightailed it out of there to save his own ass. Wow.

I read that! Man, what a weenie. I would rather face death with my family than abandon them.
Of course, I wouldn't have made them suffer through that boring movie in the first place.

[Romy]

http://graphics.lati...ims/?Sadsajdlsa


I think this is more important then anything else in regards to the shooting.

[Mishelle]

People bring their kids to movies they shouldn't be at all the time. I guess they can't find a babysitter so they make the rest of the theater suffer for it. I remember one chick took her toddler with her to see Saw IV and got mad at the kid when she started screaming bloody murder.

[WharfRat]

I usually prefer not to comment on these FOTM hot-button news stories, but I had to comment on this one. <rant inside>

Spoiler

(P.s. I mean no disrespect to the families when I say FOTM. However, it does sicken me a bit every time we have one of these "National tragedies" that the media is so happy to sell to us and profit off of. I don't mind people making money off of the news... but it just makes me sick inside when I think of this as it always reminds me of 9/11 and how everyone has had that even melted into memory due to the non-stop showings of the planes hitting the WTC for hours upon days upon weeks. Non. Fucking. Stop. The media just makes money hand over foot on the whole deal and the nation leaves further traumatized. /rant)

Many of you and like you across the nation are currently discussing gun control at a serious level. Many of you are stating that access to guns should be better restricted. For those who are unaware, there is a law currently in the U.S. (The Brady Act) which, for the most part, does just this. It prevents people who are felons or mentally ill from purchasing guns legally. The killer in this case would not have been restricted in any way under this federal act. The guy was just really smart and planned meticulously to murder as many as he could. If he didn't have access to guns would he have simply shrugged his madness aside and forgotten about it? No... He likely would have looked to explosives or some form of chemical weapons.

Mishelle hit the nail on the head earlier. The problem here isn't guns -- it's the treatment of mental illness in the U.S.A. I worked for two years in the state mental hospital here in the lonestar state and I've spent two years before that as an in home psychiatric nursing assistant. The facilities that are provided to these patients are so minimal. All of the local psychiatric treatment is of the "if you don't have private insurance or medicare, you can treat yourself" variety. (Treat yourself or wait until you actually can be proven to be a harm to yourself or others and are placed into a state psychiatric facility.) Mental illness is a topic that Americans refuse to talk about. Mental illness is shunned and hidden under the cupboards as if it doesn't exist. Now is not the time to talk about controlling the ability to purchase a firearm, but instead to talk about the state of mental illness in this country.

P.s. Mishelle, I love you, but the "I'm okay with hunting rifles but not assault rifles" argument drives me nuts! The 2nd amendment wasn't put in place to ensure that Americans have the right to go hunting! The whole point is to be able to readily form a militia should the need ever arise again!

/rant for real this time.

[iargue]

I usually prefer not to comment on these FOTM hot-button news stories, but I had to comment on this one. <rant inside>

Spoiler

(P.s. I mean no disrespect to the families when I say FOTM. However, it does sicken me a bit every time we have one of these "National tragedies" that the media is so happy to sell to us and profit off of. I don't mind people making money off of the news... but it just makes me sick inside when I think of this as it always reminds me of 9/11 and how everyone has had that even melted into memory due to the non-stop showings of the planes hitting the WTC for hours upon days upon weeks. Non. Fucking. Stop. The media just makes money hand over foot on the whole deal and the nation leaves further traumatized. /rant)

Many of you and like you across the nation are currently discussing gun control at a serious level. Many of you are stating that access to guns should be better restricted. For those who are unaware, there is a law currently in the U.S. (The Brady Act) which, for the most part, does just this. It prevents people who are felons or mentally ill from purchasing guns legally. The killer in this case would not have been restricted in any way under this federal act. The guy was just really smart and planned meticulously to murder as many as he could. If he didn't have access to guns would he have simply shrugged his madness aside and forgotten about it? No... He likely would have looked to explosives or some form of chemical weapons.

Mishelle hit the nail on the head earlier. The problem here isn't guns -- it's the treatment of mental illness in the U.S.A. I worked for two years in the state mental hospital here in the lonestar state and I've spent two years before that as an in home psychiatric nursing assistant. The facilities that are provided to these patients are so minimal. All of the local psychiatric treatment is of the "if you don't have private insurance or medicare, you can treat yourself" variety. (Treat yourself or wait until you actually can be proven to be a harm to yourself or others and are placed into a state psychiatric facility.) Mental illness is a topic that Americans refuse to talk about. Mental illness is shunned and hidden under the cupboards as if it doesn't exist. Now is not the time to talk about controlling the ability to purchase a firearm, but instead to talk about the state of mental illness in this country.

P.s. Mishelle, I love you, but the "I'm okay with hunting rifles but not assault rifles" argument drives me nuts! The 2nd amendment wasn't put in place to ensure that Americans have the right to go hunting! The whole point is to be able to readily form a militia should the need ever arise again!

/rant for real this time.

The right was written before we had a standing army. Before we spent billions on defense. Now its pointless and redundant.

As far as the rest of your argument, gun control is far to lax. He pushed 3 weapons in a single month, and over 6,000 rounds of ammo. Anyone purchasing that much material easily should be flagged and investigates. Tailing or spying on him would have easily show exactly what he was planning and preventing this. A simply system that flags people who purchase a large amount of weapons, would easily help cut down the form of mass shootings, as all of the mass shootings in the last 20 years weapons were purchased right before the event.

He never applied for or wanted mental help, and so providing mental help to him would have done zero good.

[Bone]

I'm in Canada right now, and can confirm that life goes on with stricter gun regulation. As opposed to being stopped with assault rifles.

[Maloo]

I read that! Man, what a weenie. I would rather face death with my family than abandon them.
Of course, I wouldn't have made them suffer through that boring movie in the first place.

[WharfRat]

The right was written before we had a standing army. Before we spent billions on defense. Now its pointless and redundant.

As far as the rest of your argument, gun control is far to lax. He pushed 3 weapons in a single month, and over 6,000 rounds of ammo. Anyone purchasing that much material easily should be flagged and investigates. Tailing or spying on him would have easily show exactly what he was planning and preventing this. A simply system that flags people who purchase a large amount of weapons, would easily help cut down the form of mass shootings, as all of the mass shootings in the last 20 years weapons were purchased right before the event.

He never applied for or wanted mental help, and so providing mental help to him would have done zero good.

Of course. Let's just invite the government to spy on us further to give us a further false sense of security!

I realize he didn't "Apply for mental help." The point was that because of the stigmatism of mental health issues in the USA many people go without treatment and do end up harming themselves or others before they can be diagnosed or treated.

[iargue]

Of course. Let's just invite the government to spy on us further to give us a further false sense of security!

Wake up already and realize. THE FUCKING GOVERNMENT ALREADY SPIES ON YOU. REquests for data,m cell phone taps, and emails are at the highest that they have ever been and they continue to grow.

They should atleast make it worthwhile.

[WharfRat]

Wake up already and realize. THE FUCKING GOVERNMENT ALREADY SPIES ON YOU. REquests for data,m cell phone taps, and emails are at the highest that they have ever been and they continue to grow.

They should atleast make it worthwhile.

Just because something is already happening doesn't mean we should support it occurring....

I won't turn this thread into a debate with you over the government. However, I will respond to others regarding the state of mental health in the U.S. if others would like.

P.s. If people really want to have tougher laws in America regarding gun control then we should look at adding provisions to the Brady Act. I would support provisions that would implement essentially a license to own a firearm that is issued to any person who can pass a criminal background check, has no history of domestic violence recorded, passes a psychiatric evaluation, and takes a gun safety course. Are these measures rather stringent? Yes... However, this would help reduce accidental gun deaths in America and help ensure that those purchasing firearms are mentally stable.

[Mishelle]

I usually prefer not to comment on these FOTM hot-button news stories, but I had to comment on this one. <rant inside>

Spoiler

(P.s. I mean no disrespect to the families when I say FOTM. However, it does sicken me a bit every time we have one of these "National tragedies" that the media is so happy to sell to us and profit off of. I don't mind people making money off of the news... but it just makes me sick inside when I think of this as it always reminds me of 9/11 and how everyone has had that even melted into memory due to the non-stop showings of the planes hitting the WTC for hours upon days upon weeks. Non. Fucking. Stop. The media just makes money hand over foot on the whole deal and the nation leaves further traumatized. /rant)

Many of you and like you across the nation are currently discussing gun control at a serious level. Many of you are stating that access to guns should be better restricted. For those who are unaware, there is a law currently in the U.S. (The Brady Act) which, for the most part, does just this. It prevents people who are felons or mentally ill from purchasing guns legally. The killer in this case would not have been restricted in any way under this federal act. The guy was just really smart and planned meticulously to murder as many as he could. If he didn't have access to guns would he have simply shrugged his madness aside and forgotten about it? No... He likely would have looked to explosives or some form of chemical weapons.

Mishelle hit the nail on the head earlier. The problem here isn't guns -- it's the treatment of mental illness in the U.S.A. I worked for two years in the state mental hospital here in the lonestar state and I've spent two years before that as an in home psychiatric nursing assistant. The facilities that are provided to these patients are so minimal. All of the local psychiatric treatment is of the "if you don't have private insurance or medicare, you can treat yourself" variety. (Treat yourself or wait until you actually can be proven to be a harm to yourself or others and are placed into a state psychiatric facility.) Mental illness is a topic that Americans refuse to talk about. Mental illness is shunned and hidden under the cupboards as if it doesn't exist. Now is not the time to talk about controlling the ability to purchase a firearm, but instead to talk about the state of mental illness in this country.

P.s. Mishelle, I love you, but the "I'm okay with hunting rifles but not assault rifles" argument drives me nuts! The 2nd amendment wasn't put in place to ensure that Americans have the right to go hunting! The whole point is to be able to readily form a militia should the need ever arise again!

/rant for real this time.

Let's be real, in this day and age I don't see us needing a militia, this isn't 1776. We don't have to worry about invaders sneaking over on boats and raiding our homes. I don't believe any citizen needs access to an assault rifle that can penetrate bulletproof because they're not going to war. No one owning these assault rifles want them in case another American Revolution breaks out. More often than not they're using that shit to kill other citizens and go one these shooting rampages that seem to be occuring more and more often.

[WharfRat]

Let's be real, in this day and age I don't see us needing a militia, this isn't 1776. We don't have to worry about invaders sneaking over on boats and raiding our homes. I don't believe any citizen needs access to an assault rifle that can penetrate bulletproof because they're not going to war. No one owning these assault rifles want them in case another American Revolution breaks out. More often than not they're using that shit to kill other citizens and go one these shooting rampages that seem to be occuring more and more often.

Do you really think the majority of these people who own assault riffles only want them so that they can go on shooting rampages? Maybe we just live in very different places within the U.S., because most of the people i know own at least one assault rifle. These are well adjusted people with a steady job for years and a few children that are well mannered. They will all tell you that the reason they own an assault rifle is just in case they ever need to use it against some group that is trying to kill their family. (Be it a gang of thugs, mexican coyotes smuggling humans, drugs, or weapons, or (heaven forbid) the US Government should they ever devolve into a "dictatorship.") Most see their right to bear arms as a god given right. The point is to be able to somewhat prevent the US from turning into a country in the middle east where should we choose to revolt we would be able to actually go to war with them. No one wants that to happen..... but it is one of the safeguards that do help ensure that a government doesn't overstep its boundaries upon civil liberties.

I think my overall point here was that someday we may need to form a militia against our own government again... and that not all people who own assault rifles are just getting these weapons so that they can kill crowds of people.

P.S. I can already see this event being used as another scare tactic to take away individual freedoms. (I.E. The PATRIOT Act post 9/11)

[Drakonid]

So, this was published today in a local newspaper...

Eeyup...

[iargue]

Just for the record, I own several thousand rounds of ammunition and more than five "assult" rifles, low end stuff nothing real serious. Some are investments, some are "tokens" for loans to family members, some are more than a little illegal. Gun shows and the background check is nothing, private trades are legal, got a great M-1 at a yard sale. Illegal to own, as I don't have the proper collector's license. Legal to buy the rounds for an illegal weapon, no tracking on the rounds.

My arsenal is nothing compared to the Teaparty scary person next door, he has everything from a small artillery to some serious military pieces. I'd turn him in, if he was doing anything illegal.

However, as deeply as it appears to offend many of you, I do believe in my traditional faith/culture. The killing of a stranger is such a blasphemy, If you must kill, you must know that you take a husband, brother, son, friend. You rip them from the world, you take a friggen soul, and this is so wrong. You do not kill the enemy, you do not kill the other nation, the other group. No, if you kill you kill a brother, son, husband. You kill a person, you kill another breathing, laughing child of the Creator, you kill part of yourself.

I rarely kill.

Did you buy three automatic/semi automatic weapons in a single month period, and 6,000 rounds of ammo, as well as a bullet proof vest and a riot helmet?

Do you really think the majority of these people who own assault riffles only want them so that they can go on shooting rampages? Maybe we just live in very different places within the U.S., because most of the people i know own at least one assault rifle. These are well adjusted people with a steady job for years and a few children that are well mannered. They will all tell you that the reason they own an assault rifle is just in case they ever need to use it against some group that is trying to kill their family. (Be it a gang of thugs, mexican coyotes smuggling humans, drugs, or weapons, or (heaven forbid) the US Government should they ever devolve into a "dictatorship.") Most see their right to bear arms as a god given right. The point is to be able to somewhat prevent the US from turning into a country in the middle east where should we choose to revolt we would be able to actually go to war with them. No one wants that to happen..... but it is one of the safeguards that do help ensure that a government doesn't overstep its boundaries upon civil liberties.

I think my overall point here was that someday we may need to form a militia against our own government again... and that not all people who own assault rifles are just getting these weapons so that they can kill crowds of people.

P.S. I can already see this event being used as another scare tactic to take away individual freedoms. (I.E. The PATRIOT Act post 9/11)

James still would have been able to purchase that weapon then. Your concept for gun control wouldn't have saved these people's lives, and yet you applaud this as being what is needed.

[WharfRat]

Did you buy three automatic/semi automatic weapons in a single month period, and 6,000 rounds of ammo, as well as a bullet proof vest and a riot helmet?



James still would have been able to purchase that weapon then. Your concept for gun control wouldn't have saved these people's lives, and yet you applaud this as being what is needed.

Everyone wants to pretend as if they could have stopped a massacre from occurring... Hindsight is 20/20. If we are planning for the future we should make plans for the future and not a hypothetical plan to change all of our laws regarding firearms based upon a single incident. Also, the plan that I suggested very well may have stopped him if he had been prevented by a psychiatric evaluation. Sane people don't go into theaters and murder people...

[Yung]

Sane people don't go into theaters and murder people...

That depends entirely on your definition of sanity.

[Mishelle]

Do you really think the majority of these people who own assault riffles only want them so that they can go on shooting rampages? Maybe we just live in very different places within the U.S., because most of the people i know own at least one assault rifle. These are well adjusted people with a steady job for years and a few children that are well mannered. They will all tell you that the reason they own an assault rifle is just in case they ever need to use it against some group that is trying to kill their family. (Be it a gang of thugs, mexican coyotes smuggling humans, drugs, or weapons, or (heaven forbid) the US Government should they ever devolve into a "dictatorship.") Most see their right to bear arms as a god given right. The point is to be able to somewhat prevent the US from turning into a country in the middle east where should we choose to revolt we would be able to actually go to war with them. No one wants that to happen..... but it is one of the safeguards that do help ensure that a government doesn't overstep its boundaries upon civil liberties.

I think my overall point here was that someday we may need to form a militia against our own government again... and that not all people who own assault rifles are just getting these weapons so that they can kill crowds of people.

P.S. I can already see this event being used as another scare tactic to take away individual freedoms. (I.E. The PATRIOT Act post 9/11)

When was the last time owning a semi automatic assault rifle saved someones life? England banned guns, australia banned guns. Has the government tried to take over and insert a mass dictatorship? No. Has everyone run amock raping and pillaging because no one has guns? Don't think so. Their crime rates are lower than ours. Their murder rates are way lower than ours because no one is really being protected. All we're doing is fostering our culture of paranoia that everyone is out to get us and we have to shoot them before they do anything. The numbers of accidental and intentional gun related deaths are insane here. This culture of paranoia is what gets innocent people killed.

[WharfRat]

That depends entirely on your definition of sanity.

sane/sān/


Adjective:

• (of a person) Of sound mind; not mad or mentally ill: "hard work kept me sane".
• (of an undertaking or manner) Reasonable; sensible.

Do you find it reasonable or sensible to kill crowds of innocent people?

[Waser Lave]

Do you find it reasonable or sensible to kill crowds of innocent people?

There's still a big debate in Norway over whether the person who killed 77 people is legally sane or not so it's not quite as simple as that.