410 replies to this topic

[tom12]

two people who are atheist`s get to be married in holy matrimony even tho they don`t believe in god ...

 

Two men or two woman who are the most religious people in the world cant have the same honor...

[Grandmaster]

Also to the person who posted the wikipedia page, wikipedia isn't always right.

 

I don't think there's any source that is 100% accurate. 5 to 10 years ago, the accuracy of wikipedia may be quite low. But for recent years, with collaborative efforts from people all over the world, accuracy of wikipedia has grown to at least 90%. There may still be inaccuracies in high end research fields which is constantly changing but other general information should be fairly accurate. There are also a lot more cross-referencing in wikipedia than most of the other sources, making it fairly objective. Anyway, if there's any page on wikipedia that is inaccurate, you can create an account there and edit. But it does not mean that you can edit freely. Some would require you to provide reference or discuss them with the wikipedia community before the changes are official.
 

Don't be afraid to edit – anyone can edit almost every page, and we are encouraged to be bold! Find something that can be improved and make it better—for example, spelling, grammar, rewriting for readability, adding content, or removing non-constructive edits. If you wish to add new facts, please try to provide references so they may be verified, or suggest them on the article's discussion page. Changes to controversial topics and Wikipedia's main pages should usually be discussed first.

 

Remember – you can't break Wikipedia; all edits can be reversed, fixed or improved later. Wikipedia is allowed to be imperfect. So go ahead, edit an article and help make Wikipedia the best information source on the Internet!

[kittycat]

There are some radical queer nationalist ideologies on why it is important for queer people not to support "gay" (lol) marriage. The premise in the most basic sense is that marriage is performed in heternormative terms. I don't expect any of the people on this forum to read queer theory, but it is a good place to start if you want to know why, I, as a queer, do not support "gay" marriage. 

Edited by kittycat, 16 July 2013 - 07:34 PM.

[Mex]

The reason people don't want homosexual marriages is because of their religion. I think we are already past those days where religion was above laws and human rights.  Everything people say against homosexuality can be... ugh, no word comes to my mind, sorry. You'll see.

 

It is against the Bible to be gay.

 

It is againts the Bible to masturbate. Nobody wants to make it illegal.

 

The purpose of marriage is to reproduce.

 

Old people can get married.

 

They won't raise kids properly.

 

All a person needs to be a good parent is love and good morals. 

 

Kids won't be normal.

 

Of course they will be different if raised by a homosexual couple, but that does not mean it is bad.

 

Kids will get bullied.

 

Well, yes, that's a possibility. Fat kids are also bullied, and it is not illegal to be fat. Those kids are better with a loving family than in an adoption center, a family is always better. If adoption by gay couples was approved worldwide, there would be a million kids with a happy family rather than in a sad overpopulated house with no parental love.

 

Homosexuality is against the human nature.

 

And so are plastic surgeries. 

[Romy]

The reason people don't want homosexual marriages is because of their religion. I think we are already past those days where religion was above laws and human rights.  Everything people say against homosexuality can be... ugh, no word comes to my mind, sorry. You'll see.

 

It is againts the Bible to masturbate. Nobody wants to make it illegal.

 

Old people can get married.

 

All a person needs to be a good parent is love and good morals. 

 

Of course they will be different if raised by a homosexual couple, but that does not mean it is bad.

 

Well, yes, that's a possibility. Fat kids are also bullied, and it is not illegal to be fat. Those kids are better with a loving family than in an adoption center, a family is always better. If adoption by gay couples was approved worldwide, there would be a million kids with a happy family rather than in a sad overpopulated house with no parental love.

 

And so are plastic surgeries. 

What about the robot apocalypse that will happen if Homosexuals get married huh?!

HUH?!
ANSWER ME GODDAMMIT!

[Mex]

What about the robot apocalypse that will happen if Homosexuals get married huh?!

HUH?!
ANSWER ME GODDAMMIT!

The robots that would run away would be the most advanced ones, the ones that can be capable of learning from humans. Some of them are going to be designated as males, and some as females. The male ones will see gay couples having sex, and they will try to do the same, but they have no penis, so they kill themselves. Female robots are going to start "scissoring" and they will do it so hard they are going to cut their hardware and their circuits. 

 

We are going to be fine.

[Romy]

The robots that would run away would be the most advanced ones, the ones that can be capable of learning from humans. Some of them are going to be designated as males, and some as females. The male ones will see gay couples having sex, and they will try to do the same, but they have no penis, so they kill themselves. Female robots are going to start "scissoring" and they will do it so hard they are going to cut their hardware and their circuits. 

 

We are going to be fine.

Homosexual robots?
Nice xD

[Mex]

Homosexual robots?
Nice xD

Why nice? Would you like to get some?

[VaultBoy]

Considering that they were born humans, yes.

Something I wanted to ask: why do some gay men dress as drag queens? Are they gay or transsexual?

[Mex]

Because they want to do it. If a gay man dresses like a woman, he is not transsexual, he is a transvestite. I'm not an expert in the ethimology of these words, but I think it is pretty obvious transexual means "having past the barrier to the other sex". "Trans" may come from something like transaction. "Vestite" sound like "vestir", a word in Spanish that means dress (the verb). So, transexual is the one that has physically gone beyond their birth gender, and transvesti is the one that has done it in just the clothes. 

 

A man can be transvestite and not gay.

[Drakonid]

And so are plastic surgeries. 

How are plastic surgeries against the human nature?

[Mex]

You modify your body.

[Drakonid]

And that has ANYTHING to do with human nature because...

[Mex]

Religions say you can't modify your body. That's why they are also against tattoos. I don't see anybody trying to kill Sabrina Sabrok.

[Elva]

Absolutely. Love is love, and it is not the same as wanting to marry a dog or a chair. This is love between two consenting adults, who are just as capable of understanding the concepts of commitment, matrimony and human rights as any other heterosexual couple. They can sign a marriage certificate and be fully aware of what they're getting into. I don't understand why two men or two women can't get married, but any pair of teenagers running off to Vegas can. 

 

The human race is past the point where reproduction is the primary purpose of having a partner, so arguments about parenting capabilities are limited in their relevance. We still allow infertile couples to marry, anyway, and I daresay it would be more damaging for kid to grow up with abusive-but-heterosexual parents than to grow up without one parent of each gender. It's not to say there are no abusive homosexual couples, or that all heterosexual parents are abusive, but you can't prevent every possible adverse outcome simply by banning everything that could possibly lead to it.

[NapisaurusRex]

Religions say you can't modify your body. That's why they are also against tattoos. I don't see anybody trying to kill Sabrina Sabrok.

Are you saying religion is human nature?

[Mishelle]

Considering that they were born humans, yes.

Something I wanted to ask: why do some gay men dress as drag queens? Are they gay or transsexual?

 

Those who like to dress as the opposite gender are called cross dressers. Cross-dressing really doesn't have anything to do with sexuality. There are many straight men who enjoy it (i.e. Eddie Izzard) there are gay men who enjoy dressing as women and doing drag. Transsexual is when they're a different gender than the gender assigned at birth. That isn't a sexuality either. A male to female transsexual can still identify as straight, bisexual or lesbian depending on whether or not they're interested in men, women or both.

Edited by Mishelle, 27 July 2013 - 06:22 PM.

[Hanoi]

saw 

1000 ways to die

and a man boxer crossed dressed and caught a guy trying to get some on the side of the road and the boxer knocked the S#!7 out of him and the guy died,

boxer who is cross dresser

[Mex]

Absolutely. Love is love, and it is not the same as wanting to marry a dog or a chair. This is love between two consenting adults, who are just as capable of understanding the concepts of commitment, matrimony and human rights as any other heterosexual couple. They can sign a marriage certificate and be fully aware of what they're getting into. I don't understand why two men or two women can't get married, but any pair of teenagers running off to Vegas can. 

 

The human race is past the point where reproduction is the primary purpose of having a partner, so arguments about parenting capabilities are limited in their relevance. We still allow infertile couples to marry, anyway, and I daresay it would be more damaging for kid to grow up with abusive-but-heterosexual parents than to grow up without one parent of each gender. It's not to say there are no abusive homosexual couples, or that all heterosexual parents are abusive, but you can't prevent every possible adverse outcome simply by banning everything that could possibly lead to it.

I love you.

 

 

Are you saying religion is human nature?

 

No, no, of course it isn't. I'm saying that religions condemn homosexuality because it is against human nature, but I don't see anyone complaining about Sabrina Sabrok. I think she is not known in your country, lets see a picture of her:

 

 

saw 

1000 ways to die

and a man boxer crossed dressed and caught a guy trying to get some on the side of the road and the boxer knocked the S#!7 out of him and the guy died,

boxer who is cross dresser 

 

Oh, yes, I saw that one too. And he wasn't even a skinny feminine guy, he was a black Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Edited by Mex, 27 July 2013 - 09:09 PM.

[Hanoi]

Dont want to be that guy D:

[Drakonid]

No, no, of course it isn't. I'm saying that religions condemn homosexuality because it is against human nature, but I don't see anyone complaining about Sabrina Sabrok. I think she is not known in your country, lets see a picture of her:

 

It seems like you don't know what human nature is...

[Mex]

Well, by nature, bodies should not be tattooed, practiced surgery on, pierced, anally penetrated with a big black cock, etcetera. Why? We are not made for that. I really don't understand people who are in favor of some of these things and against other ones.

[Grandmaster]

The reason people don't want homosexual marriages is because of their religion. I think we are already past those days where religion was above laws and human rights.  Everything people say against homosexuality can be... ugh, no word comes to my mind, sorry. You'll see.

 

It is againts the Bible to masturbate. Nobody wants to make it illegal.

 

Old people can get married.

 

All a person needs to be a good parent is love and good morals. 

 

Of course they will be different if raised by a homosexual couple, but that does not mean it is bad.

 

Well, yes, that's a possibility. Fat kids are also bullied, and it is not illegal to be fat. Those kids are better with a loving family than in an adoption center, a family is always better. If adoption by gay couples was approved worldwide, there would be a million kids with a happy family rather than in a sad overpopulated house with no parental love.

 

And so are plastic surgeries. 

 

Actually, only the first point of the arguments you put forth is related to religion. Even that point is questionable, you have to point more specifically which part of Bible says so. Even in the Bible, there is no blanket treatment for all sins, some are more heavily condemned and even punishable by death. So whenever you have to make comparisons across Bible, you have to be more comprehensive.

 

Anyway, the discussion earlier focused on non-religious aspects.

 

Proposition

- Happiness for gays to pursue their desire.

- Rights for gays.

- Ensures less casual sex with a committed marriage partner.

 

Opposition

- Cause reproduction issues. (Wider adoption of technology aided tools for reproduction, instead of sex for reproduction, may eventually lead to production of robots to substitute humans)

- Influence the nurture environment (parental care, peer pressure, community) to favouring more people who have inclinations of attraction towards same-sex to  engage in homosexual acts.

- Making homosexual acts an alternative way of life may make it more of choice, rather than a combination of natural inclinations and some choice, influencing others who may not have inclinations of attraction towards same-sex. (http://en.wikipedia....ual_orientation)

- Homosexual acts leads to health problems among homosexuals, especially higher percentage of STD. (http://www.cdc.gov/msmhealth/STD.htm)

[Mishelle]

[Elva]

Opposition

- Cause reproduction issues. (Wider adoption of technology aided tools for reproduction, instead of sex for reproduction, may eventually lead to production of robots to substitute humans)

- Influence the nurture environment (parental care, peer pressure, community) to favouring more people who have inclinations of attraction towards same-sex to  engage in homosexual acts.

- Making homosexual acts an alternative way of life may make it more of choice, rather than a combination of natural inclinations and some choice, influencing others who may not have inclinations of attraction towards same-sex. (http://en.wikipedia....ual_orientation)

- Homosexual acts leads to health problems among homosexuals, especially higher percentage of STD. (http://www.cdc.gov/msmhealth/STD.htm)

 

To address these points,

 

1. IVF and other technological aids are available to heterosexual couples as well. Not just infertile ones, either; also to single mothers using sperm donors, couples where the woman doesn't want to bear the child herself for cosmetic or other reasons...a whole multitude. Seems more fair to me if the law were to make IVF etc. available exclusively for homosexual and infertile couples. I'm also not sure what is meant by the suggestion that robots will replace humans...a baby conceived via IVF is just as human as one who was naturally conceived. There is no genetic difference.

 

2 & 3. These are only valid oppositional arguments if we take the premise that homosexuality is a bad thing. Being kind and generous to other people would theoretically cause more people to exhibit kind and generous behaviour, but it can hardly be argued that this would be an adverse outcome.

 

4. Yes, many STDs are more common in men who have sex with men. But think about it for a second - how are STDs transmitted as a general rule? You get an STD because you have unprotected sex with an infected person, not because you're gay. The issue here is more about educating the population about barrier protection/safe sex and regular STD screening. 

 

 

Using Christianity/Catholicism as an example, see here for a list of things that the Bible condemns, but which many people get away with doing anyway:

http://www.huffingto..._n_1327701.html