394 replies to this topic

[Fawkes]

Did anyone else watch his videos and think:

1.  This kid acts like an anime character/watched too much anime growing up (he starts to cackle like Light when he is finally caught).

2.  He was extremely lonely and depressed because he couldn't get a girlfriend.

3.  It seemed fake.

 

 

I know it was legit, but the way he acted was like a bad movie or something.  I couldn't believe it until I saw it on the news.

[Magical]

Again. No one is saying all men are doing this to women we're saying YES ALL WOMEN HAVE HAD THIS HAPPEN TO THEM AT THE HANDS OF MEN. Idk why everyone is so hell bent on taking this personally rather than addressing a clearly systematic issue. 

 

Also the killer was never actually diagnosed with a mental illness. The only thing he was ever diagnosed with is Aspergers which is not a mental illness.

 

He was actually borderline Aspergers. Lol, you don't have to have a diagnosis to be mentally ill

[liabear]

(sorry i haven't read through this entire topic butttttt) anyone reading the manifesto? i'm on page 114. i keep needing to stop because of how infuriating this kid is. like not even touching the fact that he's a mentally unstable murderer, i want to smash his face in reading this, it's the most entitled, whiny thing i have ever read

[Hawk]

Seriously, it doesn't matter. Do you know how easier it is to make a bomb or chemical nerve agent, like mustard gas? Extremely, probably easier than getting a gun. Guns are just a bit more personal.

If people are serious and determined, they will find a way to kill masses of people, regardless of weaponry access. Firearms access is only a concern for individuals in abusive relationships, not the general public.

This is something I wanted to delve into, but I don't want to end up on any lists.  I would even argue that the routes you suggested are more of a danger to the public than a shooting spree.  The chemical attacks have the potential to cause massive amounts of damage before anyone can diagnose the problem  (See Tokyo subway and sarin gas), and bombs have proven themselves very deadly over time; It's quite clearly effective, seeing as that is an avenue activists (terrorists) regularly pursue and (depending on locale/choices in life - Obviously a suicide bomber isn't going to be as successful) continue living afterwards.  A shootout seems to nearly always end as suicide-by-cop, with multiple casualties, but it could have been worse.

 

Yes, if someone were very, very determined (and intelligent enough not to kill themselves attempting to produce it) they could feasibly produce something like that themselves. You're talking about part of my point. Yes, they can kill people regardless of weapon access. I'm still going to argue that pretty much any idiot can get their hands on a gun and depending on the state, very quickly. For example, in my own state, all you need is a clean(ish) record and to wait five days for a purchase. It is so much more difficult for the average person to kill mass amounts of people without it because most people wouldn't be able to use a bow and arrow adequately nor be able to properly synthesize a chemical agent or bomb. The difference is guns are able to be used impulsively with mass deadly force.

 

I could go to a welders supply company first thing tomorrow and get acetylene and oxygen tanks.  It'll make some loud noises and really accelerate the burning of an object.  Mixing household chemicals can yield some very nasty substances, including noxious gasses (For example, bleach and ammonia).  I'm sure there are plenty of items at the local hardware store that, if someone wanted to, could yield far deadlier outcomes than this shooting.

 

The fallout now, regarding the 'guns issue' is likely to be huge. It is not a right of humans to freely own weapons that can be used to kill innocent people. The sheer fact that they are so accessible is a painful disregard. I also don't care about mental health checks for purchasing firearms, which are so easy to evade/fake. It shows the disregard for fellow men, it's not a right and it's not a necessity. Members of society can more than cope without such weapons. This gun culture must stop, and it's an insult to the star-spangled banner, that time and time again, Congress fail to challenge this most important issue. It's disappointing, and of course, heartbreaking.

 

I know!! It is so hard to find fact-based informative affairs. They're all so sensationalist now.

Got some news for you - It is a right of United States citizens who are not in trouble with the law.  Members of society can cope without guns is true to an extent.  Where do you draw the line, though?  You can't do anything about it now because of the sheer number of firearms in private citizen's homes.  If members of society decide to willingly follow some disarmament, what opportunities are there for those who choose not to be a member of society?

 

Also, guns do have a purpose.  Hunting and sport.  Both are hobbies for millions of people in the United States.  Based on the quarry, any number of different guns may be necessary.  A little .22lr for small game all the way up to bullets in the 1/2" diameter range for larger game (I sure as shit wouldn't want any small caliber stuff if I was hunting bears).

 

Plenty of things can be used to kill innocent people...

 

 

2nd amendment.  It was made when people only had guns that took 20 minutes to fire, and now we interpret it wrong as "every American has the right to own a machine gun". That is not what our Founders intended when they wrote that law.

And then there's the NRA, they're a very powerful political group and we all know how much American politicians pander to large groups. Plus, there's the call for "MORE GUNS TO PROTECT OURSELVES!" After one of the school massacres it was suggested, "ARM THE TEACHERS"!

The bold comment has not been brought up in this conversation, nor is it remotely accurate based on laws that have been on the books for 28 years.  Machine guns can be owned by private citizens, but they sure as shit aren't going to shoot up anyone with it.  The costs associated with owning a pre-1986 machine gun are astronomical, and many consider a pre-1986 gun a collector's piece or investment.

 

Now, to your real point; You're scared of guns because they look scary and bad people have the potential to misuse them.  Guns are tools, and shooting is both a sport and hobby for many people. 

 

Finally, back to the real topic at hand:

• This guy is a (SIGNIFICANT) outlier in terms of the male population's attitude towards women, and should not be receiving the attention he is.  Unless, of course, all men came to the agreement that this guy would stir the pot and we would then use this act for some kind of anchoring effect.  (Let's put away the tinfoil guys... and girls)
• Iomega is correct in the sense that sexual violence against men is terribly under-reported.  (There are plenty of sayings that go along with this and I don't feel like being crucified over what some guys would say to another who complained about being used in this regard.)
• Bone - We get it, feminism is about equality.  Take a huge step back and realize you (and a few others) are not talking equality anymore.  You've been trying to establish a ravine between how men and women are treated.

This is a fucked up conversation to be having on a forum like this.

[Magical]

 

Got some news for you - It is a right of United States citizens who are not in trouble with the law.  Members of society can cope without guns is true to an extent.  Where do you draw the line, though?  You can't do anything about it now because of the sheer number of firearms in private citizen's homes.  If members of society decide to willingly follow some disarmament, what opportunities are there for those who choose not to be a member of society?

 

Also, guns do have a purpose.  Hunting and sport.  Both are hobbies for millions of people in the United States.  Based on the quarry, any number of different guns may be necessary.  A little .22lr for small game all the way up to bullets in the 1/2" diameter range for larger game (I sure as shit wouldn't want any small caliber stuff if I was hunting bears).

 

Plenty of things can be used to kill innocent people...

 

@Hawk

 

It's an ignorant statement. Hunting and sport matter more than innocent lives? Is that a sacrifice the US is willing to make? If it is, then they abandon all honour and pride as a nation. It may be legal, but it is far from just. They have no purpose in the hands of civilians. If people wish to purchase such weapons for the reason of protection, then let them get a license. It works in all other countries. So don't even bother trying to justify it. Six people died here. Imagine if you knew one of them. You wouldn't be saying such things if you did.

Edited by Magical, 27 May 2014 - 08:37 PM.

[Mishelle]

How about men to the same status of women? Is that on your agenda too?

As for your comic, how would you react if I stated that ALL women are insane when they're on their period?

Of course you'd deny it and you'd use yourself and your friends as an example.

What would your reaction be if my response to that was: It's great that you personally don't do this but in no way does that mean every other man woman out there is like you.
 

 

NO ONE IS SAYING ALL MEN ARE DOING THIS, WE'RE SAYING THAT THIS IS SYSTEMATICALLY HAPPENING TO ALL WOMEN. My friend said it better than I could so I'm just going to copy paste what they said because I'm so done with repeating myself. 

 

 

 

Women are often violated by the people they trust the most. Rape is very, very common. Sexual harassment is even more common. It's a scary world we live in. We all face threats and know the world is capable of being a very dangerous place. Rape is a particular danger that women face more than men do. It impacts them significantly more than us.

Guys always talk about rape as if it's not a legitimate concern. They're quizzical when women express concern about being alone with them. But the first thing these same men end up doing when they have daughters is warn them to be mindful of their surroundings and to keep away from sketchy men. Men unconsciously know the world is a dangerous place for women, but can't say it aloud, because we often take being viewed as a threat to mean that we're actually rapists. 

What women are simply saying is that they don't know. No one knows what are intentions are. Women have no way of knowing if they'll end up being abused by us. But it's a strong possibility and a reality that many of these women have already faced. It may inconvenience us or upset us that women may walk faster when they see us walking behind them. But at least we aren't the ones running. I don't want to run. I don't want to be afraid. And for the most part, I don't have to live with those concerns. But women have to face all of those burdens. They have to run. They have to be afraid. 

 

And my other friend, also male, came up with this analogy. 

 

 

 

 

"Imagine a bowl of M&M's. 10% of them are poisoned.

Go ahead, eat a handful.

Not all M&M's are poison.

Edited by Mishelle, 27 May 2014 - 08:47 PM.

[Magical]

"Imagine a bowl of M&M's. 10% of them are poisoned.

Go ahead, eat a handful.

Not all M&M's are poison.

 

Well, don't complain when you starve.

Edited by Magical, 27 May 2014 - 08:55 PM.

[Kat]

Wow. I didn't know chocolate was comparable to a human being.
I feel sad for that person.

[Magical]

Wow. I didn't know chocolate was comparable to a human being.
I feel sad for that person.

 

Thank you!!

[luvsmyncis]

As for your comic, how would you react if I stated that ALL women are insane when they're on their period?

How I react to this statement depends on whether or not I'm on my period. Since I am currently on my period, I believe my reaction would be insane.

[Magical]

How I react to this statement depends on whether or not I'm on my period. Since I am currently on my period, I believe my reaction would be insane.

 

That's not to say that such variables do not have an impact on daily interactions.

[Dan]

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure I could have put it better myself. Good on you, Red.

[NapisaurusRex]

It's an ignorant statement. Hunting and sport matter more than innocent lives? Is that a sacrifice the US is willing to make? If it is, then they abandon all honour and pride as a nation. It may be legal, but it is far from just. They have no purpose in the hands of civilians.

They do have purpose for civilians. Hunting is a source of food for my family. We would not have been able to eat meat last fall without being able to hunt. It's not time efficient to build a trap for a deer and I'm not physically capable of using a bow. Rabbits are a little easier to do without a gun, but they don't have nearly as much meat on them.

If people wish to purchase such weapons for the reason of protection, then let them get a license. It works in all other countries. So don't even bother trying to justify it. Six people died here. Imagine if you knew one of them. You wouldn't be saying such things if you did.

A license requirement isn't going to stop me from owning guns without one... and I can imagine it's the same for a lot of the other millions of gun owners in America, based on how well registration does.

[Magical]

@Dan Right now, the respect I have for you is through the roof.

They do have purpose for civilians. Hunting is a source of food for my family. We would not have been able to eat meat last fall without being able to hunt. It's not time efficient to build a trap for a deer and I'm not physically capable of using a bow. Rabbits are a little easier to do without a gun, but they don't have nearly as much meat on them.

A license requirement isn't going to stop me from owning guns without one... and I can imagine it's the same for a lot of the other millions of gun owners in America, based on how well registration does.

 

I can understand, yet, a license certainly works here in my country. I know it'd be hard to keep tabs on who's got a gun since most people have. But even if we don't see changes for another generation, at least the following one will be safer.

[NapisaurusRex]

I can understand, yet, a license certainly works here in my country. I know it'd be hard to keep tabs on who's got a gun since most people have. But even if we don't see changes for another generation, at least the following one will be safer.

I don't know what country you're in.

[Dan]

@Dan Right now, the respect I have for you is through the roof.

 

I can understand, yet, a license certainly works here in my country. I know it'd be hard to keep tabs on who's got a gun since most people have. But even if we don't see changes for another generation, at least the following one will be safer.

 

Just to clear this up, I'm not the person in red on those photos. It's just something I found that was strikingly similar to the arguments purveyed in this thread which I thought would be good to share. 

 

But thanks anyway I guess.

[Magical]

I don't know what country you're in.

 

Ah! Sorry, Australia. Cases here are very rare. The inconvenience of obtaining a gun usually trumps that form of masscre.

 

 

Just to clear this up, I'm not the person in red on those photos. It's just something I found that was strikingly similar to the arguments purveyed in this thread which I thought would be good to share. 

 

But thanks anyway I guess.

 

I know But I'm so very glad you did!

[Mishelle]

Just because we want to talk about the implications of casual misogyny and microaggressions that we have to deal with doesn't mean that people are not talking about mental illness and how to deal with it in this country. We are not idiots, we can focus on more than one problem. We have had the discussion on mental illness in this country, sadly our country has chosen to do nothing about it and haven't passed and kind of common sense gun laws to prohibit people who are mentally ill from owning guns. We are still in the process of trying to get these right wing nutbags out of office so we can get something done. We have talked about mental illness, we have talked about gun legislation. Right now we have a giant campaign going on Up2SD to get rid of the stigma of suicide and mental illness and how to spot the signs before it happens. We have talked about gun laws and mental illness ad nauseum but these shootings are going to keep happening until we get the right people in office to change it because this is an institutionalized problem.

 

Microaggressions and casual misogyny is ANOTHER issue that we can ALSO talk about because it is purely a social issue that can only change if people are aware of it and want it to change but every time we bring it up we're met with #notallmen and #butyoureexaggeratingtho. If what we're saying doesn't apply to you then cool because again, no one ever said all men but y'all seem to be more worried about your egos than the safety of women.

 

 

 

Well, don't complain when you starve.

 

 

 

 

Wow. I didn't know chocolate was comparable to a human being.
I feel sad for that person.

 

Do you know what analogies are?

Edited by Mishelle, 28 May 2014 - 05:18 AM.

[KaibaSama]

That statement I made about machine guns wasn't meant to be accurate. It's called hyperbole.

[Magical]

 

Just because we want to talk about the implications of casual misogyny and microaggressions that we have to deal with doesn't mean that people are not talking about mental illness and how to deal with it in this country. We are not idiots, we can focus on more than one problem. We have had the discussion on mental illness in this country, sadly our country has chosen to do nothing about it and haven't passed and kind of common sense gun laws to prohibit people who are mentally ill from owning guns. We are still in the process of trying to get these right wing nutbags out of office so we can get something done. We have talked about mental illness, we have talked about gun legislation. Right now we have a giant campaign going on Up2SD to get rid of the stigma of suicide and mental illness and how to spot the signs before it happens. We have talked about gun laws and mental illness ad nauseum but these shootings are going to keep happening until we get the right people in office to change it because this is an institutionalized problem.

 

Microaggressions and casual misogyny is ANOTHER issue that we can ALSO talk about because it is purely a social issue that can only change if people are aware of it and want it to change but every time we bring it up we're met with #notallmen and #butyoureexaggeratingtho. If what we're saying doesn't apply to you then cool because again, no one ever said all men but y'all seem to be more worried about your egos than the safety of women.

 

 

 

 

 

Do you know what analogies are?

 

 

Analogies are superfluous when the gravities of the respective situation is worlds apart.

Also, he didn't just declare war on women, but men as well were targets. Simply, he wanted to kill the women who wouldn't sleep with people like him and all the men that were slept with.

[Kat]

 

Do you know what analogies are?

 

 

I have two problems with that "analogy". I'm assuming it's about men, of course.

 

1. It literally objectified all men.

2. It compared 10% of the male population to poison.

 

Now tell me that's not misandry..

[Magical]

I have two problems with that "analogy". I'm assuming it's about men, of course.

 

1. It literally objectified all men.

2. It compared 10% of the male population to poison.

 

Now tell me that's not misandry..

 

Yeah, ditto me for that too.

[Dan]

 

Just because we want to talk about the implications of casual misogyny and microaggressions that we have to deal with doesn't mean that people are not talking about mental illness and how to deal with it in this country. We are not idiots, we can focus on more than one problem. We have had the discussion on mental illness in this country, sadly our country has chosen to do nothing about it and haven't passed and kind of common sense gun laws to prohibit people who are mentally ill from owning guns. We are still in the process of trying to get these right wing nutbags out of office so we can get something done. We have talked about mental illness, we have talked about gun legislation. Right now we have a giant campaign going on Up2SD to get rid of the stigma of suicide and mental illness and how to spot the signs before it happens. We have talked about gun laws and mental illness ad nauseum but these shootings are going to keep happening until we get the right people in office to change it because this is an institutionalized problem.

 

Microaggressions and casual misogyny is ANOTHER issue that we can ALSO talk about because it is purely a social issue that can only change if people are aware of it and want it to change but every time we bring it up we're met with #notallmen and #butyoureexaggeratingtho. If what we're saying doesn't apply to you then cool because again, no one ever said all men but y'all seem to be more worried about your egos than the safety of women.

 

   

 

 

[Magical]

   

 

 

 

My feelings exactly. Yeah, it's an issue in society, and in some miniscule way may apply here, but it's really got little to do with misogyny, it was only used a a vehicle by women to express their feminist opinions. I'm a feminist, but there's a point where it get's ridiculous.

 

Let's stop discussing misogyny in EVERY situation that involves women, when there is no real issue of it.

[Mishelle]

I have two problems with that "analogy". I'm assuming it's about men, of course.

 

1. It literally objectified all men.

2. It compared 10% of the male population to poison.

 

Now tell me that's not misandry..

 

It compared men who sexually abuse women to poison, over 90% of rapists are male, the majority of violence is committed by men. I don't know why people constantly want to tiptoe around the fact that our patriarchal and hypermasculine culture is a breeding ground for abusive men. 

My feelings exactly. Yeah, it's an issue in society, and in some miniscule way may apply here, but it's really got little to do with misogyny, it was only used a a vehicle by women to express their feminist opinions. I'm a feminist, but there's a point where it get's ridiculous.

 

Let's stop discussing misogyny in EVERY situation that involves women, when there is no real issue of it.

 

Maybe when 1 in 4 women stop being the victims of attempted and complete sexual assaults we'll stop talking about misogyny.

Analogies are superfluous when the gravities of the respective situation is worlds apart.

Also, he didn't just declare war on women, but men as well were targets. Simply, he wanted to kill the women who wouldn't sleep with people like him and all the men that were slept with.

 

Men were only considered targets if they got in the way to what he wanted which was WOMEN'S BODIES. 

Seriously guys what's wrong with talking about this? What negative aspects come from talking about the issue that women's face that you guys are trying to hard to stop this conversation?