303 replies to this topic

[Romy]

I felt like this was relevant.
Maybe we should not kill them.

[Tokio]

Spoiler

I'm going to admit up-front that I have a personal bias because I once had to kick a "good friend" in the face several times and run to keep his penis out of me.

Now to begin, how about we stop comparing people's bodies to objects? Mishelle already covered this, but it seems that nobody is honoring that request. Stealing an item involves taking away an object that can be replaced. It may disturb the victim of the theft, but it is impersonal and something that can be gotten over.

An anonymous guy described the effect of rape pretty well on an article submitted to The Escapist:



As I said, I managed to get out of an attempted rape. I did the thing that everyone tells every rape victim ever to do: I hit the guy until he lost his grip on me and I ran. And you know what? I didn't get a parade or even a cookie, I got more criticism.

To this day I wonder if I did the right thing by fighting back. I completely understand why someone wouldn't or couldn't fight back even if they're 100% sober (as I was at the time). That's because when you find yourself in a situation where you know that someone intends to rape you, there are two options: You can act the way you've been taught to act for your entire life (be passive, be sweet, be gentle, be quiet, don't argue), or you can break the rules you've always known. It's hard. Getting out the "Please stop, please stop touching me"s when he started undoing buttons and yanking off articles of clothing was easy, but after that? You're not taught what to do after that.

My roommate was the first person I told, and she informed me that I was a huge bitch for what I'd done. That's what the guy had said, too, yelling "You cold German bitch!" Others said I must've led him on, that kicking him in the face was excessive, that I should've done something earlier, that I should've had "intuition" that would tell me to avoid that situation, that I shouldn't have made friends with the guy.

Just what the hell does everyone want victims of rape or attempted rape to do? I followed all of the typical "rules to prevent rape" and they're utter horseshit. Didn't help me a damn bit.

If I were to revise the list, I'd only put one item on it: "Get lucky." That's what it takes to avoid rape. You have to get really fucking lucky.

We are not all equipped with "rape-dar." Rapists aren't typically a shady guy in the park at midnight preying on tiny, fit white girls with cute blonde hair. Rapists don't wear a big sticker that says "Hello I am a rapist." Rapists are your best friend, your neighbor, your parent, your priest, your friend's parent, your coworker, your boss, your teacher, your coach...

As for a punishment for rapists, that I don't know. I'm not good with punishments. As I said, I still feel somewhat guilty for kicking my would-be rapist in the face.

This is really fucked up =_= Whenever I read debates on this stuff it messes with me IRL and my heart starts freaking out hardcore lol. A lot of people who talk about things like this have never been in such a terrifying situation and a lot of them never will. It's one of the scariest feelings to get stuck alone with some dude you don't want touching you, someone who could easily overpower you etc.

(longwalloftextbelow im bored its 4:30am)

Spoiler

My mom had a tenant living with us when I was pretty young (like 10 or 11) and he had been around for awhile so I guess she trusted him to babysit me for a few hours one evening. He started getting really fucking creepy and talking about sex/etc and got those creepy psycho eyes always watching me.. Didn't manage to do anything because I ran and locked myself in a room with the phone and called my mom who rushed back and kicked him out on the spot. As a kid it really set the stage for being so closed/shy around men now. A few times since then I've been cornered by some creepers, and most recently my sister's fiancé (? don't grammar nazi me I suck T.T) tried some weird shit. He was in a "teaching" position I guess, as when it happened I was just starting in the game design industry and he was helping me learn some new programs while my sister and their kid (yeah, who the hell tries shit with the sister of the girl you are engaged to when you have a daughter?) were visiting the states. That guy threatened me to not tell anyone. I didn't say anything to my sister since I was stuck between worrying that the kid would grow up without a dad, or that he would do some fucked up shit to his kid, but I told my parents who grilled that guy for a year and he still hasn't told my sister.

I liked to think I was smart enough and mentally strong enough to put these things aside, but eventually it catches up. I've never "fought back" even though I was taught to by parents, police, etc... because it is very hard to, like Suou did, kick or hurt another human no matter what their intentions are. They have to cross several pretty serious lines before you fear enough for your life to act and break how you are taught to act as a child. I am very good at running away though, but since these situations seemed to occur often, now in my early twenties I can hardly speak to men I don't trust or know (eg. cashiers, teachers, co-workers, even men online)- most of the time faking confidence works okay, but I get pretty shaky sometimes and by now it's even difficult to make phone calls since most of the people I speak to for banking, etc... are men and I freeze up a lot. And about the victim blaming part, I don't drink, party, anything like that nor have I ever dressed showing more skin than a plain t-shirt and jeans. Out of maybe 5 or 6 serious incidents and another few less so, I only went to the police one time. They dealt with it okay I guess, but going there and facing them destroyed me for two years and I dropped out of school- the police I had to deal with were men and were a bit crude/insensitive.

Men who hang their asscheeks out of their pants and walk around shirtless aren't going to get blamed for "luring" someone in as readily as a girl who dresses like a prostitute, because of obvious gender differences. Really, just like how you know not hit on people who are already taken, everyone knows that no means NO when it comes to sex. Wearing skanky clothing doesn't justify it even by one percent, yeah the girl is an idiot but the cake didn't force you to eat it. Someone said earlier (forgot who sorry =S) that sex isn't an equal act, which I guess is true. I think it's hard for guys to understand how devastating and terrifying rape is to women, even if they think they do, just like I can't understand what it would be like for a guy be raped by another guy, or even a girl rape a guy (how does that even work u___u)

tldr

In the end, don't think rapists should be subject to the death penalty, they didn't kill anyone and it's not even "an eye for an eye" (which I don't even know if I'd support that either), but all this comparing theft and blah blah blah is kind of degrading u__u. What they take away from a girl by doing such a thing to her is irreplaceable so it is stupid to try to measure punishment and pain/suffering in such a way. Honestly, if I or any other girl (or guy) wanted badly enough to have the guy(s) who hurt them punished, we would "man up" and fight for it and those (not so important) statistics would look better. But really, it's more something to be scared of than something to be mad about, and I think me and a lot of girls would be pretty ok with just never having to see that guy ever again lol. Restraining orders and prison is fine by me. I also heard a bajillion cases of chicks who lie and use this excuse against men when they consented to sex. It's such a grey area and lots of it is based on he said/she said, therefore I don't think the death penalty should be mixed up in something possibly unprovable. You can bust a guy out of prison that you wrongly arrested and pay him a bunch of money to apologize, but you can't bring a dead man back to life

[Sweeney]

I felt like this was relevant.

You were wrong.

[Romy]

You were wrong.

What do you think we should do with them then?

[Habanero]

What do you think we should do with them then?

Leave them in jail?
If prisoners found out they're dead meat either way.

[luvsmyncis]

What do you think we should do with them then?

Eat them. They're fuckin' delicious.

[Nymh]

What do you think we should do with them then?

Why does that matter? It's not what this thread is about. If it was, I would point out that pedophilia is not a crime.

[Romy]

Why does that matter? It's not what this thread is about. If it was, I would point out that pedophilia is not a crime.

Pedophilia when rape is involved.


Edit: Sorry guys. I realized I should have clarified. That made me look like a jackbutt.

Edited by Ivysaur, 28 July 2012 - 04:34 PM.

[Frizzle]

Why does that matter? It's not what this thread is about. If it was, I would point out that pedophilia is not a crime.

I'm pretty sure it is, that's why people get arrested for it.

[Drakonid]

Pedophilia when rape is involved.


Edit: Sorry guys. I realized I should have clarified. That made me look like a jackbutt.

Doesn't make your post any less stupid.

I'm pretty sure it is, that's why people get arrested for it.

There's nothing wrong in liking little kids, as long as it stays in your head.

[Ladida]

The feds would have a field day if they got ahold of my latest Google searches.. Rape, pedophilia.. Heh.

Anyway, apparently it's being used to describe the crime now, at least it is in that dictionary.

The American Heritage Stedman's Medical Dictionary states, "Pedophilia is the act or fantasy on the part of an adult of engaging in sexual activity with a child or children."

Researchers recommend that these imprecise uses be avoided because although people who commit child sexual abuse commonly exhibit the disorder,^[7][13][14] some offenders do not meet the clinical diagnosis standards for pedophilia and these standards pertain to prepubescents.^[11][15][16] Additionally, not all pedophiles actually commit such abuse.^[16][17]

[Nymh]

The feds would have a field day if they got ahold of my latest Google searches.. Rape, pedophilia.. Heh.

Anyway, apparently it's being used to describe the crime now, at least it is in that dictionary.

It even goes on to say that pedophilia is mental (a "disorder") and that not all child sex offenders are pedophiles.

[zandra]

I would say life sentence with chance of parole, capital punishment seems to easy, and i believe in 2nd chances.

By the time they get out, it would be at least 20+ years? worse if it is California.

[Mishelle]

It even goes on to say that pedophilia is mental (a "disorder") and that not all child sex offenders are pedophiles.

Yeah I read that pedophiles "love" children and think they're doing a good thing but other child abusers go after children because children are weaker and can't defend themselves.

[Ladida]

It even goes on to say that pedophilia is mental (a "disorder") and that not all child sex offenders are pedophiles.

My point was people (at least the people who felt it necessary to include that in their dictionary) are using pedophilia to describe the abuse even though initially it was meant just for the disorder. Much like how people say nauseous instead of nauseated, which now seems to be socially acceptable, but not academically correct.

[Frizzle]

So you're being deliberately pedantic over an unrelated issue?

[Ladida]

So you're being deliberately pedantic over an unrelated issue?

^If that was in response to me, my previous response was for Nymh in response to me in response to Nymh

[Yum]

Kill Them definetely

[Sweeney]

Kill Them definetely

Thank you for your contribution.

[gummis]

I think he should fry. We have justifiable homicide but there will never be justifiable rape.

[DanDoesWork]

Well not to defend statutory rape but what happens to those offenders who get caught simply having sex with individual that is the same age? Do they go through it too?

I don't think the death penalty would be effective because well look at how many people are sitting on death row. What I do find interesting is someone who is chemically castrated. In theory it seems like it would work...lower a mans hormones so much that sexual thought won't cross their mind...but on the flip side that may open the door up to being a much more violent offender.

Aren't their articles out there where men and women were sent to this sort of asylum to be permanently banned from the open public?

[8143FF763271]

Rape isn't a big deal. It's a form of assault like any that should be punished like any. The fact that we make rape the MOST HORRIBLE CRIME IN DA WORLD is a byproduct of patriarchal society that any serious feminist should oppose. Violating someone's sexuality isn't the worst thing you can do to them- unless your culture ascribes an unreasonable degree of weight to that sexuality to begin with.

Take men for example. If we heard that a woman would rape us by having sex with us, conventional sex, we'd laugh it off for the most part. Why? We're men. We'd stick our dick in 70% of girls regardless so someone making us stick it in theirs isn't the biggest affront that you can possibly commit against us. Has anyone wondered why it is the most backward patriarchal societies that forbid rape the most fervently, as long as it's not spousal? Rape laws are overblown because they aren't assault laws at all. They are laws protecting property, the property of one man that he will contract through marriage. In a society where genders were equal and where sexuality wasn't prone to taboos and restrictions, rape wouldn't be treated the way it is now.

So y'all freaking the fuck out about rape? Y'all not feminists. Y'all first rate patriarchs.

Also, Mishelle is a liberal variety feminist so most of you are getting a very naive view of what victim-blaming is and why it is such a "bad thing" when we're specifically talking about rape.

Edited by kami12, 21 August 2012 - 10:06 PM.