323 replies to this topic

[Lychee]

Well at least I am being openminded I bet you don't even understand half the things I've written about and you're saying they're "delusions" and stuff do some research and you'll realize that you are wrong.

If you're so open minded, how come you didn't respond to the article I posted about the Bible not discriminating against homosexuality, hmm? Too many words?

[emerkeng]

I asked you to explain the things I didn't understand, but you ignored that post.

I have to say, though, the "open minded" accusation is too complex to bring up. I consider myself open minded, to evidence and interesting theories. I don't consider myself open minded towards any old shit that someone can spew up after trawling internet conspiracy sites for half an hour.

It's not trawling through internet conspiracy sites It's from personal experience and the bible with a little bit based more on just my beliefs. I'm just trying to make it more relative to you so I'm looking up sources you can read, while you have never backed up anything you said with any proof.

[pabs123]

It's not trawling through internet conspiracy sites It's from personal experience and the bible with a little bit based more on just my beliefs. I'm just trying to make it more relative to you so I'm looking up sources you can read, while you have never backed up anything you said with any proof.

because the science and such which he talks about is proven....and the only other thing he's said is that you're beliefs have no proof, and thats a fact...

[Sweeney]

It's not trawling through internet conspiracy sites It's from personal experience and the bible with a little bit based more on just my beliefs. I'm just trying to make it more relative to you so I'm looking up sources you can read, while you have never backed up anything you said with any proof.

Personal experience, and the bible. Both notoriously unreliable sources for anything.
What assertions would you like me to provide evidence for?

Note; evidence, not proof. That's intellectual honesty for you

[emerkeng]

If you're so open minded, how come you didn't respond to the article I posted about the Bible not discriminating against homosexuality, hmm? Too many words?

since that article is just making assumptions it can be just as faulty as your logic.

Personal experience, and the bible. Both notoriously unreliable sources for anything.
What assertions would you like me to provide evidence for?

Note; evidence, not proof. That's intellectual honesty for you

I still don't see any evidence or proof

because the science and such which he talks about is proven....and the only other thing he's said is that you're beliefs have no proof, and thats a fact...

science is still not proven it is just theories theories are not facts. The bible is fact however and that's a fact.


/end thread I'm done like I said unbelievers will try to disprove anything and will look at science as the truth when it really isn't.

[Sweeney]

I still don't see any evidence or proof

Well, that's because I asked you which of my "many assertions" you'd like me to provide evidence for. Until you do that, I can't provide any.

[pabs123]

science is still not proven it is just theories theories are not facts. The bible is fact however and that's a fact.

and that right there is the reason why everything you've said is wrong

[Sweeney]

science is still not proven it is just theories theories are not facts. The bible is fact however and that's a fact.

The theory of gravity.
It's a theory, and a fact.

Unless you'd care to jump off a bridge and test it.

Theories are networks of explanations that, well, explain facts. Theories do not graduate into facts.

[tb20]

I'm not really familiar with all the religious beliefs, can somebody clarify if homosexuality is a sin you can't be forgiven for?

You have to take into consideration that homosexuality hasn't been determined to be birth related or psychological. In either case can the individual really be blamed for who they turn out to be? Take for example a child who's brought up with no knowledge of the bible and is living in a community with high levels of homosexuality exposure for quite a while, odds are he will have be open to the idea of homosexuality, highly increasing his chances of accepting and maybe even practicing it--(basic psychological development that's widely accepted, we see it in criminals, abusive individuals etc.) On the flip side should a person be born homosexual then the bible's claims of sin where a person has no choice is highly questionable to say the least.

I have to point out though that I'm a huge nono for homosexuals adopting children in the first place, since well let's face it the world can be quite harsh in words (other kids) and that will eventually affect the child in the long run.

PS. please don't tell me that psychological development hasn't been "proven" le sigh

[Lychee]

since that article is just making assumptions it can be just as faulty as your logic.

Those aren't assumptions. Those are very plausible theories based on historical knowledge and careful translation.

[emerkeng]

I'm not really familiar with all the religious beliefs, can somebody clarify if homosexuality is a sin you can't be forgiven for?

You have to take into consideration that homosexuality hasn't been determined to be birth related or psychological. In either case can the individual really be blamed for who they turn out to be? Take for example a child who's brought up with no knowledge of the bible and is living in a community with high levels of homosexuality exposure for quite a while, odds are he will have be open to the idea of homosexuality, highly increasing his chances of accepting and maybe even practicing it--(basic psychological development that's widely accepted, we see it in criminals, abusive individuals etc.) On the flip side should a person be born homosexual then the bible's claims of sin where a person has no choice is highly questionable to say the least.

I have to point out though that I'm a huge nono for homosexuals adopting children in the first place, since well let's face it the world can be quite harsh in words (other kids) and that will eventually affect the child in the long run.

PS. please don't tell me that psychological development hasn't been "proven" le sigh

IMO you are not born homosexual it is a choice that may be based on psychological development or traumas. However, I believe the Lord is willing to forgive anyone like it says in the bible Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. If you believe in God and that he saved you that you then you can have salvation. Even so if you proclaim god as your saviour even though most believers sin it is still a good idea to change your lifestyle for the better.

Those aren't assumptions. Those are very plausible theories based on historical knowledge and careful translation.

Theories are still assumptions until proven as fact we do not know if the man was really gay or not.

Edited by pathentic, 18 July 2010 - 03:27 PM.

[Sweeney]

Theory=assumption /end argument (=

Well, no. That's not right, and not the end of the argument.

You're conflating the scientific meaning of the word "theory" with the common usage. They're not compatible.

[emerkeng]

and that right there is the reason why everything you've said is wrong

and that right there makes my argument valid unbelievers will believe anything to believe that there is no God.


You guys are really persistent . . . I'm a go watch a movie and enjoy life bye (=. In between the time I watch the movie and come back I'm sure you guys will realize just how wrong you are you guys are like hardened walls you guys just won't listen to what is true.

[Lychee]

Theories are still assumptions until proven as fact we do not know if the man was really gay or not.

Whilst I am not in possesion of a time machine and can therefore not go back and ask the authors if they meant to say that the man was boning the other man, the careful use of language makes it pretty apparent that he was. As I doubt you bothered to click the link, I shall provide more evidence for this claim:

"A second piece of evidence is found in verse 9 of Matthew’s account. In the course of expressing his faith in Jesus’ power to heal by simply speaking, the centurion says, “When I tell my slave to do something, he does it.” By extension, the centurion concludes that Jesus is also able to issue a remote verbal command that must be carried out. When speaking here of his slaves, the centurion uses the word doulos. But when speaking of the one he is asking Jesus to heal, he uses only pais. In other words, when he is quoted in Matthew, the centurion uses pais only when referring to the sick person. He uses a different word, doulos, when speaking of his other slaves, as if to draw a distinction. (In Luke, it is others, not the centurion, who call the sick one an entimos doulos.) Again, the clear implication is that the sick man was no ordinary slave. And when pais was used to describe a servant who was not an ordinary slave, it meant only one thing — a slave who was the master’s male lover.

The third piece of evidence is circumstantial. In the Gospels, we have many examples of people seeking healing for themselves or for family members. But this story is the only example of someone seeking healing for a slave. The actions described are made even more remarkable by the fact that this was a proud Roman centurion (the conqueror/oppressor) who was humbling himself and pleading with a Jewish rabbi (the conquered/oppressed) to heal his slave. The extraordinary lengths to which this man went to seek healing for his slave is much more understandable, from a psychological perspective, if the slave was his beloved companion."

Edited by Cellophane, 18 July 2010 - 03:33 PM.

[pabs123]

and that right there makes my argument valid unbelievers will believe anything to believe that there is no God.

what r u talking about? you're making the assumption that the bible is a fact, and that's not true... secondly you're making the assumption that scientific theories aren't factual when things like gravity can't be ignored as being true.,.

THAT right there makes my argument valid, that believers will make up their own rules in order to validate their views

[Sweeney]

You guys are really persistent . . . I'm a go watch a movie and enjoy life bye (=. In between the time I watch the movie and come back I'm sure you guys will realize just how wrong you are you guys are like hardened walls you guys just won't listen to what is true.

There you go again. You've already decided you have the truth.
On the other hand, I know, with 95% certainty, that what I know is the best truth we have at the moment.

And there is the difference.

[emerkeng]

There you go again. You've already decided you have the truth.
On the other hand, I know, with 95% certainty, that what I know is the best truth we have at the moment.

And there is the difference.

Like i say one more time unbelievers will . . . and theories are not proof sorry bud )= the bible is proof tho (=

Edited by pathentic, 18 July 2010 - 03:51 PM.

[Waser Lave]

Like i say one more time unbelievers will . . . and theories are not proof sorry bud )= the bible is proof tho (=

And how do you know that the bible is fact?

[Sweeney]

Like i say one more time unbelievers will . . . and theories are not proof sorry bud )= the bible is proof tho (=

Theories are not proof.
Nor are theories even evidence.
But all theories, in the scientific sense, have evidence, or they wouldn't be called theories.

And how do you know that the bible is fact?

Because it says so. Duh.

[pabs123]

And how do you know that the bible is fact?

because god commanded his people to write it...or some shit like that i would assume he'll say:) if i had to lay down one reason why the bible is fact, it's because no sensible human being would sit down and write such a long fiction novel...then again since when are Christians sensible... (says the catholic XD)

[Waser Lave]

if i had to lay down one reason why the bible is fact, it's because no sensible human being would sit down and write such a long fiction novel...then again since when are Christians sensible... (says the catholic XD)

Obviously you've never read The Stand by Stephen King.

[emerkeng]

because god commanded his people to write it...or some shit like that i would assume he'll say:) if i had to lay down one reason why the bible is fact, it's because no sensible human being would sit down and write such a long fiction novel...then again since when are Christians sensible... (says the catholic XD)

You are a Catholic as in you go to the Catholic Church however, you are not a true believer if that's what you really think.

[Sweeney]

SHUN THE NON-BELIEVER

I'm sorry, but come off it... "not a true believer"? What is this, the inquisition?

[pabs123]

You are a Catholic as in you go to the Catholic Church however, you are not a true believer if that's what you really think.

i am a catholic as in my parents raised me a catholic and i believe in all the morals laid down by the bible... im not blind in faith however, believing everything that big book says and i DON't believe in the church or any other person/institution which thinks it knows the truth and attempts to enforce it upon everyone else making them think they are ignorant and/or naive...i.e you

[Lychee]

You are a Catholic as in you go to the Catholic Church however, you are not a true believer if that's what you really think.

Dude. Lots of Christians see the Bible as parables, not fact.