53 replies to this topic

[MsRose]

It's a bit early, but I figured I'd bring up the discussion now.

I still remember exactly where I was when 9/11 happened. It felt so surreal at the time. The whole united states held their breath unanimously as the second tower was hit. We gasped in horror as they crumpled with trapped workers and firefighters inside. Life had never felt so vulnerable. I wish more than anything that hate like that could never exist on this earth. Thousands of lives were taken in a matter of hours.

At the time I was 10 years old. I remember sitting in class and our teaching asking us to take a poll on whether it was an accident or if it was terrorists. This, I believe, was before the second plan had hit and the theory of an accident was still up in the air. We were all sent home early to be with our families. I remember huddling around the television absolutely shocked by what I saw. I think the image that hit me hardest was seeing all those people jumping to their deaths. Seeing them mid air turning in the wind. There were so many just falling; Hundreds it seemed like. It was so hard to watch and worry what was going to happen next. We all were so lost in that one moment.

Do you remember where you were? How old were you at the time?

Edited by MsRose, 10 September 2010 - 11:35 AM.

[Puppetmaster]

I remember exactly where I was:
7th grade; the school year had just started. Classes started for me at 8:20am. I had a study hall. Tim and I (the only two) sat in the library and pretended to do work. We saw as Mrs. S and Mr. E brought out one of the televisions from the A / V room and put the news on. All we could see was a large building with a tower of smoke erupting from it. Neither of us really grasped the gravity of the situation. As the day went on, we went to our Social Studies class. We all sat down, and our teacher came out with a solemn look on her face. She started to explain what happened as we all listened in horror. Nothing was accomplished that day. We all watched the news all day. When I got back home, we watched the news... we watched it all day, hoping for new information to come out.

It was a crazy day. I'm sure I'll remember it for as long as I live (until dementia sets in).

[bobsauce]

I was a junior in high school and went to school a couple miles from the pentagon. A great deal of the school had parents working there and it was pure chaos. The teachers really showed their humanity to us that day. The principle came over the loud speaker and told them to turn off their tvs and lock their doors.

We could see the smoke from the second floor and not a single person listened. Some teachers barred their doors with filing cabinets, not as a preventive measure against terrorist, but so the administrators couldn't force them to turn off the news. They knew that people sitting in their classroom had just been orphaned and how important that day would stand in history. Some did the opposite. They dismissed class, said go where you want, do what you need to, call your parents. Cell phone towers were jammed with so many calls going on at once and there was a mass, uncontrolled crowd leaving school. They tired to stop people and were met with, "Fuck you, both of my parents are there, I'm leaving." What could they say to that?

A girl in one of my classes wrote a paper about her grief and trying to find closure. Her dads office was right where the plane hit, and she never got to bury him or see a body. She wrote about how she was only really able to accept that he was gone when she visited his office. It was completely destroyed but sitting on a table, unmoved, was a coffee cup, still half full. It was the only thing that could confirm in her mind that yes her dad had existed, he had been there, and he was gone. It was one of the most heartbreaking things I've ever witnessed.

Driving by on a major road on the way to Georgetown was my first experience of how the country would be changed forever. To see the most secure military facility in the world with a gaping hole in the side, the burn marks still on the building was breathtaking and a real testament to how vulnerable the entire world is to destruction. The thing that always stood out the most wasn't the building though. It was the Humvees on the side of the road with .50 cal. machine guns trained on every passing car. When I visited eastern Europe in the late 90s I experience for the first time soldiers with machine guns in public, looking at you with fear and suspicion and remember thinking how foreign that was to me. Every time I looked down the barrel of one of those .50 cals as I passed I was reminded that our country would never be the same again.

Edited by bobsauce, 10 September 2010 - 12:29 PM.

[MiladyM]

Hmm I remember, I was sitting in art class at the time wich is always a lot of noise. Never heard that teacher say shut the fuck up like that (noone of the class really noticed the radionews besides her)
Our last 6 classes were canceled to go home earlier, there was no way that anyone could pay attention anyway. I cant really discribe the feeling, but it basicly felt like it wasnt real at first. I'm not from the US and thankfully didnt have anyone I know close to there, but it still hurted to see it on tv over and over again.
I still get a bad mood every time I watch a documentairy or a newsarticle about it, I cant imagine how it must be for the people involved if it makes me upset like that already. Its heartbreaking definatly.

[Elindoril]

I couldn't care less.

Then again, I was 9 and was more worried about getting to school on time than something that happened in another country which had no direct impact on me at all.

[ShadowLink64]

A Canadian perspective: I was getting ready for school (was 11 years old, just started Grade 7), and when we turned on the news in the morning, the first plane had already hit, and the Canadian media was covering the story. I remember feeling very shocked, then once it was determined that it was a terrorist attack, very concerned.

Nothing was cancelled that day at school, but all of the teachers mentioned it in my classes. I remember watching the news that night also to hear about any updates.

[Boggart]

I was grade 5, during story time. My teacher put down the book, and told us about it. Didn't really understand the severity of it

Although, I'm Canadian so it was more news than a crisis.

[RealRacingFan]

Well, in our school, the principal ended up saying "Everyone turn off their TV's" so no one from school that has parents working in the pentagon or twin towers be traumatized. Also, I also heard a couple years back that all 4 terrorists that had flight lessons only learned how to take off, not how to land....that is a VERY obvious red flag.

[Puppetmaster]

Well, in our school, the principal ended up saying "Everyone turn off their TV's" so no one from school that has parents working in the pentagon or twin towers be traumatized. Also, I also heard a couple years back that all 4 terrorists that had flight lessons only learned how to take off, not how to land....that is a VERY obvious red flag.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it just flight; neglecting take off and landing?

[Elle]

I was 9 at the time. i live in australia, but i remeber waking up and my dad was watching the television. he made us all sit down and watch, i guess trying to get across how massive it was. i didnt understand the full severity of it at the time, i was too young, i just remember how devastating it was, i remember people crying, and the constantly rising death toll. i remember how afraid everyone was, us and many others had family over there, and we were scared the attacks would continue. i remember news reports and speculation on the idea "australia is next".
6000+ injuries and close to 3000 deaths. living in australia, i guess we just felt lucky

[chinapple]

I was 10 in Canada and recently immigrated.
The severity of it did not register on me until several years later. =/
Heard it at school that morning from friends.

Edited by chinapple, 10 September 2010 - 03:59 PM.

[redlion]

I don't care. I mean, I remember, but it doesn't matter. It didn't happen to me, or you, or 250 million other Americans. It happened to 2996 people and their families. It was a tragedy, to be sure, but how many times must we re-live it?

I'm trying to move on with my life. I'm trying to not blame the world, a nation, a religion, or 'terror' for my nation's problems. I want our nation to let go of it's grudges and stop acting the belligerent empire.

This has gone on for nine years now. It wasn't fucking Pearl Harbor - we're not being invaded. Shit, they almost took the towers down in '93 with a carbomb (if I recall correctly), terrorists bombed the USS Cole, the US Embassies in half a dozen African countries, not to mention holding an entire embassy hostage in Iran. That last one wasn't terrorism but popular extremism... still, why is this one event so important?

Because it sells advertising spots on news programs.

[chinapple]

I don't care. I mean, I remember, but it doesn't matter. It didn't happen to me, or you, or 250 million other Americans. It happened to 2996 people and their families. It was a tragedy, to be sure, but how many times must we re-live it?

I'm trying to move on with my life. I'm trying to not blame the world, a nation, a religion, or 'terror' for my nation's problems. I want our nation to let go of it's grudges and stop acting the belligerent empire.

This has gone on for nine years now. It wasn't fucking Pearl Harbor - we're not being invaded. Shit, they almost took the towers down in '93 with a carbomb (if I recall correctly), terrorists bombed the USS Cole, the US Embassies in half a dozen African countries, not to mention holding an entire embassy hostage in Iran. That last one wasn't terrorism but popular extremism... still, why is this one event so important?

Because it sells advertising spots on news programs.

You don't have to become depressed and sentimental over the whole event because you didn't go through it, but I don't think the fact that 9/11 did not affect you doesn't mean you show a complete disregard for it.
Also, 9/11 is the first time US soil was attacked for a long time. That resonates a lot more to people than Embassies getting sacked in foreign developing countries. That's why it is important.
Out of 9/11 sprung Afghanistan and Iraq wars, how the Bush administration acted and how the Obama administration is acting... so I think its importance extends beyond the twin towers in the grand scheme of things.
What's the difference between terrorism and popular extremism?
It's not very solid do debunk the importance of 9/11 based on a slight technicality of terms.
I think it's safe to say it's terrorism. =/

[redlion]

You don't have to become depressed and sentimental over the whole event because you didn't go through it, but I don't think the fact that 9/11 did not affect you doesn't mean you show a complete disregard for it.
Also, 9/11 is the first time US soil was attacked for a long time. That resonates a lot more to people than Embassies getting sacked in foreign developing countries. That's why it is important.
Out of 9/11 sprung Afghanistan and Iraq wars, how the Bush administration acted and how the Obama administration is acting... so I think its importance extends beyond the twin towers in the grand scheme of things.
What's the difference between terrorism and popular extremism?
It's not very solid do debunk the importance of 9/11 based on a slight technicality of terms.
I think it's safe to say it's terrorism. =/

Thanks for a thought out reply.

First, I'm not showing complete disregard for the event. It happened, I acknowledge that. But you don't see the same sort of 'rememberance' in the UK over the London bombings on 7/7. I was there, actually, in the city. I'm more affected by that, by being there, than by watching endless, mindless hours of repetitive news coverage of the planes hitting towers from halfway across the country.

As to your point about US soil not being violated for a long time... I have to disagree on two points. First, Embassies are sovereign territory of their parent nations. The French embassy is France.

Second, we've been bombed by terrorists before in the United States, and people forget that it doesn't take a moslem to detonate a bomb. Timothy McVeigh blew up the Federal Building in Oklahoma City in 1995 and it's a slow news day when, on April 19th, some ten o'clock news anchor will mention it between what the President and Paris Hilton did that day. So sure, it might affect us more because it was New York and it was a high profile target, but that doesn't make it unique, and that doesn't mean we should give it more weight than it deserves.

I'm not going to argue about the reasons for war. If you really want to, create another thread. Suffice it to say I'm not satisfied with the Bush administration's justifications for war, let alone their reasoning linking the events of 9/11 to a nation (when, after all, a nation didn't hit us - a terrorist organization did).

The bit about terrorism and extremism relates to the examples I gave. All of those examples are terrorism except for the revolution in Iran in 1979, which I call popular extremism because the people of Iran overthrew a modernizing monarch in favor of a strict, traditional and theological ruling class, the Ayatollahs. If you thought I was referring to 9/11 as popular extremism, I apologize.

[MsRose]

Don't mind Redlion. He just shows up to disagree with me.

Please don't make this into a debate. Feel free to start another thread to do so.

Edited by MsRose, 10 September 2010 - 04:48 PM.

[luvsmyncis]

Don't mind Redlion. He just shows up to disagree with me.

Eh, don't feel special. I made a 9/11 thread last year that turned into a debate. It's just the natural way of the world because not everyone sees things the same way.

[chinapple]

Thanks for a thought out reply.

First, I'm not showing complete disregard for the event. It happened, I acknowledge that. But you don't see the same sort of 'rememberance' in the UK over the London bombings on 7/7. I was there, actually, in the city. I'm more affected by that, by being there, than by watching endless, mindless hours of repetitive news coverage of the planes hitting towers from halfway across the country.

As to your point about US soil not being violated for a long time... I have to disagree on two points. First, Embassies are sovereign territory of their parent nations. The French embassy is France.

Second, we've been bombed by terrorists before in the United States, and people forget that it doesn't take a moslem to detonate a bomb. Timothy McVeigh blew up the Federal Building in Oklahoma City in 1995 and it's a slow news day when, on April 19th, some ten o'clock news anchor will mention it between what the President and Paris Hilton did that day. So sure, it might affect us more because it was New York and it was a high profile target, but that doesn't make it unique, and that doesn't mean we should give it more weight than it deserves.

I'm not going to argue about the reasons for war. If you really want to, create another thread. Suffice it to say I'm not satisfied with the Bush administration's justifications for war, let alone their reasoning linking the events of 9/11 to a nation (when, after all, a nation didn't hit us - a terrorist organization did).

The bit about terrorism and extremism relates to the examples I gave. All of those examples are terrorism except for the revolution in Iran in 1979, which I call popular extremism because the people of Iran overthrew a modernizing monarch in favor of a strict, traditional and theological ruling class, the Ayatollahs. If you thought I was referring to 9/11 as popular extremism, I apologize.

No problem.
Sorry, I momentarily forgot that fact about embassies. But regardless, my point is that bombing the US in North America probably resonates a lot more than bombing US embassies else where. And given the high profile target as you stated, I do think it deserves the coverage it receives.
I mean, crashing into the twin towers is a direct show of defiance along side killing some 3000 civilians. It shows the US can be vulnerable. So you put the fact that the terrorists literally struck home, the death toll and injured are incredibly high compared to other bombings, and it's the twin towers, then you get a pretty serious and unique event. Embassies get bombed, couple hundred casualties... but then this. I am not trying to belittle other tragedies but the point I am making is by comparison, 9/11 is pretty important in US history.
I can't comment on whether nations outside of North America get the same coverage as us regarding 9/11 nor am I able to comment on the coverage the London bombing receives. But again, by comparison, 9/11 outweighs the others significantly qualitatively and quantitatively.

I brought up the Bush administration, wars and whatnot just to emphasize the importance 9/11 has in our history. Maybe some decades later when students study American history and write an essay discussing the causes of the Afghan/Iraq wars and perhaps future conflicts that sprung out of all this, 9/11 will be a major point of interest.

And yes, I did misinterpret your comment about extremism. I thought you were referring to 9/11. Haha. =p

I suppose my point is that I do think 9/11 is as important as media outlets make it out to be, and not as unimportant as you deem it. That's all, and I hope I'm not too callous in my comparisons/comments. =)

Oops, didn't see the above comments before I posted.
I won't post on this anymore. =) =)
Sorries.

Edited by chinapple, 10 September 2010 - 05:07 PM.

[sonic]

This topic makes me disggusted with codex. Atleast the way last years topic went.

And just to get it outta the way, fuck you stm. Your a little bitch.

[MsRose]

This topic makes me disggusted with codex. Atleast the way last years topic went.

And just to get it outta the way, fuck you stm. Your a little bitch.

Who is stm?

[Elindoril]

Don't mind Redlion. He just shows up to disagree with me.

Please don't make this into a debate. Feel free to start another thread to do so.

He's not debating, he's just sharing his opinion on the subject.

[redlion]

simonthemime.

You'll see him if he wants to be seen.

Don't mind Redlion. He just shows up to disagree with me.

Please don't make this into a debate. Feel free to start another thread to do so.

If we all said the same thing, it wouldn't be a very interesting topic. Disagreeing fuels discussion.

[sonic]

simonthemime.

You'll see him if he wants to be seen.

Hes not batman.

and he wont be able to resist. He made even the member pics topic about some political shit.

[Volition]

i was 7, and in gr2, i was sick that day so i stayed home from school, i turn on the tv and look for my kids shows, i was like "where'd ma shows go?" I had no understanding of the severity of the events that had transpired until i was like in junior high.

[redlion]

Hes not batman.

and he wont be able to resist. He made even the member pics topic about some political shit.

Can you fault the man for believing what he believes? Sure, he could use a little discretion about when to post such things, but we don't practice censorship here.

Well, except for CP. lol@Jake

[Gee]

I was in the 5th grade when it happened. I'm also from Canada btw. Our teacher just told us what happened, then when I went home my mom started talking to me about it. This is what was on the news for weeks. It's shocking until now.