132 replies to this topic

[Waser Lave]

You're right in that their intent is posting lots. Posting lots may not necessarily constitute spamming. We can't expect these users to have any other intent, given that we are telling them that they can post 500 times for programs of some sort. I was told by that "trouble" member (who wasn't that much trouble, if any), rather succinctly, that our policies encourage this sort of behaviour because that is what people will do.

With that said, if it becomes trouble, a more fundamental change in our advanced member policy is needed. We can't just keep raging at these new members who are only doing what they feel is in their best interest.

We haven't really had many people selfish enough to actually do that though. I'd be concerned that by allowing it now it would actually be seen as encouraging people to do that more...

[Junsu]

im not gona go through all those links so i clicked on a random one

http://www.neocodex....19#entry1455519

A statement that answers the topic in the general entertainment section is a noob question? proof that you dont even read my posts or the topic

Aite, then let ME choose a random one too.
http://www.neocodex....31#entry1455431

First, this is called topic digging because you are bumping up a thread that died on May 3rd. You posted on May 16th.
Your post did not contribute AT ALL to the question at hand. You told something completely irrelevant.

Now, before you say "well its about the shop and I saw a few"
OK. So whats the point of your post? If you didn't post then would it have changed something? NO.
All you did was bring up a thread that was dead and then post something useless.

And honestly, if your excuse is "Everyone is doing it too", then I think a post reset should go your way.

[Neoquest]

Aite, then let ME choose a random one too.
http://www.neocodex....31#entry1455431

First, this is called topic digging because you are bumping up a thread that died on May 3rd. You posted on May 16th.
Your post did not contribute AT ALL to the question at hand. You told something completely irrelevant.

Now, before you say "well its about the shop and I saw a few"
OK. So whats the point of your post? If you didn't post then would it have changed something? NO.
All you did was bring up a thread that was dead and then post something useless.

And honestly, if your excuse is "Everyone is doing it too", then I think a post reset should go your way.

Although I agree that this post is totally pointless and it considered spam by me. You cannot use the fact that it is an old thread in your argument becuase there are no rules against grave-digging in this forum.

[frostz]

Aite, then let ME choose a random one too.
http://www.neocodex....31#entry1455431

First, this is called topic digging because you are bumping up a thread that died on May 3rd. You posted on May 16th.
Your post did not contribute AT ALL to the question at hand. You told something completely irrelevant.

Now, before you say "well its about the shop and I saw a few"
OK. So whats the point of your post? If you didn't post then would it have changed something? NO.
All you did was bring up a thread that was dead and then post something useless.

And honestly, if your excuse is "Everyone is doing it too", then I think a post reset should go your way.

The main argument of most people is that i am posting for extra counts, this was in response to a general entertainment topic which does not in fact give me any counts. Secondly it was on the second page, so it does not constitute as necroing, The general entertainment section moves very slowly and almost every topic on the 2nd page is a month or 2 months old. I didn't go dig this up just because it was an easy response for easy counts

[Scot]

Let us also be clear that the only part of the site with rules on quality of post is the debate section of the forum. However regardless my post is still in line with the rest of the posts on the thread.

For example lets say this post of mine

http://www.neocodex....s/page__st__250

I agree this post is weak but the content is comparable to 90% of the posts back 2 pages as far as i am bothering to check right now, since there was no actual debate going on, you dont actually expect me to post an analysis of some sort in answer to no one do u?

"everyone is doing it too"

nice argument

edit in response to you redit
im not gona go through all those links so i clicked on a random one

http://www.neocodex....19#entry1455519

A statement that answers the topic in the general entertainment section is a noob question? proof that you dont even read my posts or the topic

Really? Try clicking links 1-4 and tell me it's not spam.

Aite, then let ME choose a random one too.
http://www.neocodex....31#entry1455431

First, this is called topic digging because you are bumping up a thread that died on May 3rd. You posted on May 16th.
Your post did not contribute AT ALL to the question at hand. You told something completely irrelevant.

How about one where someone had genuine computer problems and his advice was to "stop torrenting".

http://www.neocodex....ost__p__1455878

[ShadowLink64]

Let's be clear here. It's not the just frequency of posts as much as the frequency and the content. Even when he got called out on his spamming yesterday, his only defense was repeating "other people are doing it too". A lot of members here are making an honest effort to do this despite not having anything to contribute. I see in the form of 4-5 posts a day, which I normally deem as spam but I'm willing to overlook because they are patient enough to do this over the course of a month. They could just as easily post 30 times or more in a day but don't to avoid stepping on any toes.



http://www.neocodex....ost__p__1455422
http://www.neocodex....ost__p__1455408
http://www.neocodex....ost__p__1455431
http://www.neocodex....ost__p__1455504
http://www.neocodex....ost__p__1455519
http://www.neocodex....ost__p__1455395
http://www.neocodex....ost__p__1455390
http://www.neocodex....ost__p__1455402
http://www.neocodex....ost__p__1455403
http://www.neocodex....ost__p__1455412
http://www.neocodex....ost__p__1455415

I already sent you two my complete analysis on those posts. No need to discuss this here.

[Felonee]

QUICK INTERRUPTION HERE.

Just wanna say that I like this site and I'll continue to pay for Advanced because a) I'm too lazy to get my post count up; and b) I think Abrosia is fantastic and much better than the ABers on other sites. And I don't participate a lot on the forum, so I haven't seen any of this and therefore cannot comment. But good luck with the politics, just wanted to say the site has my support.

[Boggart]

We might as well give frostz permanent advanced then. He'll reach advanced in about 3 days and then he'll be gone forever. He joined in 08' and only recently posted because he's only here for the programs.

Why bother allowing him to clog the forums with bs posts if it'll result in the same means

Might as well give everyone free advanced.

[Noitidart]

The community is supposed to be here to help people who are new, not to lead them in the wrong direction.

THIS

[zandra]

We might as well give frostz permanent advanced then. He'll reach advanced in about 3 days and then he'll be gone forever. He joined in 08' and only recently posted because he's only here for the programs.

Why bother allowing him to clog the forums with bs posts if it'll result in the same means

Might as well give everyone free advanced.

i dont think frostz is the only one. apparently there is another person that is in the competition with him. maybe there should be a change of how advance is given? through active contribution rather then 500 post and bye.

[frostz]

i dont think frostz is the only one. apparently there is another person that is in the competition with him. maybe there should be a change of how advance is given? through active contribution rather then 500 post and bye.

How did i find this site? It advertised itself with a free public autobuyer that uses networking and lists, Free to use, and all we need is a quick account sign up

What do prospective users find when they come onto this site? Yes the autobuyer is technically free, but it is basically unusable to "literally generate neopoints" as advertised. (see image below)

I found this site because i was looking for a free autobuyer but found that contrary to the advertisement I would actually have pay a fee or post on the forums thus taking part in the community to make it function in a manner that will actually allow me to "literally generate neopoints" or I could pay a fee.

The restrictions to use the autobuyer exist to foster community making it so that the prospective user must take part within the community in the hopes that they would stay on after they have reached the number of posts. In fact this is a model that is used by every other neopets autobuying forum, they advertise a "free" autobuyer, but only if you "pay" or have been a member for a certain number of time, or posted a certain number of times.

What is it that this community offers to people besides a place for people searching for an autobuyer, and a place for neopets enthusiasts to gather?

Do you think that a person who is not interested in either neopets, neopets trading, or autobuying would come here to take part in neopets general talk?
Would they make use of this site's general forums when there are better places for general discussions? Indeed, how would new programmers come to find this site, if they were not interested in neopets and developing neopets programs themselves? Surely they would only have known about this site through either connections with friends, or because they did a key word search of neopets autobuyer on google.

So now you think that mayhaps there should be a change in how advanced is given? What exactly do you have to offer to make people stay in this one of many neopets communities if you take away one of the important things that drew people here in the first place which are the programs themselves?

I mean am i wrong to presume that the creators of this site must care about obtaining and keeping new members for their community, otherwise why make it a requirement for new users to take part in the community to begin with? Is it not to foster product loyalty, as well as to allow us to familiarize ourselves with each other meeting new people and in the process the forums become a place for us to meet with each other to discuss a common topic?

I find it to be how should i say, bewildering and perhaps even hurtful that people would be so presumptuous as to automatically believe that I would leave the community as soon as i have reached my goal. I have found enjoyment in taking part in the general debates, and general discussion section, as well as to find entertainment in the jokes section while i wait for new forum topics to come up for me to post in.

Indeed i am anxious to get to 500 to begin using the program because that is what I am here for, but in the process I am tying myself down to the community. Why would I have to gain to get the program and leave? Where would I go? another Neopets website? Would i eventually come to post less once i hit 500? yes most certainly. But does that imply that i am abandoning the community? most certainly not.

So long as i am not creating spam (nonsense gibberish) in abundance (everyone on this site produces what counts as spam according to the rules occasionally) is there any real reason for this campaign that everyone is trying to launch against me?

Can all of you honestly say that every time each of you post, you post in a meaningful manner, a paragraph of analysis like i am doing now? Can anyone honestly say that they have never posted something along the lines of "lol i think this is funny, or i think your ideas are stupid" Are all of you truly angered because I am posting in abundance and that not all of my posts are up to all of your "high" standards or is it because you believe that I am only here for the program? A belief that may have been right to begin with, but inevitably wrong once i have become involved with the community

Edited by frostz, 18 May 2011 - 11:12 PM.

[Junsu]

How did i find this site? It advertised itself as a freeawlenf;alksnfoiwna;lksnfown;sld

Do you really think someone will read that o__o
Its a forum.

Edited by Junsu, 18 May 2011 - 11:07 PM.

[frostz]

Do you really think someone will read that o__o

You wish me to post in a constructive manner, to post not follow the example of others who are seen as spammers in your eyes, and when i do so, you say LOL TLDR.

[ShadowLink64]

I found this site because i was looking for a free autobuyer but found that contrary to the advertisement I would actually have pay a fee or post on the forums thus taking part in the community to make it function in a manner that will actually allow me to "literally generate neopoints" or I could pay a fee.

The restrictions to use the autobuyer exist to foster community making it so that the prospective user must take part within the community in the hopes that they would stay on after they have reached the number of posts. In fact this is a model that is used by every other neopets autobuying forum, they advertise a "free" autobuyer, but only if you "pay" or have been a member for a certain number of time, or posted a certain number of times.

You can still make lots with the limitations in place. The program generates an average profit of around 120 million NP per day for everyone, and not everyone running it is an advanced member. All of our other programs are fully available, which can't be said about some other communities.

The main reason for restricting the program is that if everyone were to have access to the unlimited program, the profits would generally suck for everyone. There are hundreds of people that run the ABer daily. Why not make it so the users who support our site more have access to more?

Do you really think someone will read that o__o
Its a forum.

Just because you didn't read it, doesn't mean other people won't. Be a bit more considerate.

[frostz]

You can still make lots with the limitations in place. The program generates an average profit of around 120 million NP per day for everyone, and not everyone running it is an advanced member. All of our other programs are fully available, which can't be said about some other communities.

The main reason for restricting the program is that if everyone were to have access to the unlimited program, the profits would generally suck for everyone. There are hundreds of people that run the ABer daily. Why not make it so the users who support our site more have access to more?


Just because you didn't doesn't mean other people will.

Indeed, and i have chosen this site above the others, i have therefore placed my support for this site. I would pay for advanced membership but i do not have access to a credit card so thats not an option for me.

Why would i spend so much time here otherwise defending my actions spending time to post my thoughts? I have kept all my posts civil and have not risen up to rage against those who are flaming me, and instead i am spending time explaining why i am here. Yes i do wish to use the program and yes that is a selfish reason, but i am not a saint and we all have our personal agendas.

Since the complaints, have my posting quality not become better, its not like i am not reading what all of you say, but most of what i see is nothing but anger. Most of my original posts were never spam by definition to begin but in either case the quality of my posts had become better over time as i became more familiar with the environment in which i am posting in.

Edited by frostz, 18 May 2011 - 11:25 PM.

[Map]

Indeed, and i have chosen this site above the others, i have therefore placed my support for this site. I would pay for advanced membership but i do not have access to a credit card so thats not an option for me.

Why would i spend so much time here otherwise defending my actions spending time to post my thoughts? I have kept all my posts civil and have not risen up to rage against those who are flaming me, and instead i am spending time explaining why i am here. Yes i do wish to use the program and yes that is a selfish reason, but i am not a saint and we all have our personal agendas.

Since the complaints, have my posting quality not become better, its not like i am not reading what all of you say, but most of what i see is nothing but anger. Most of my original posts were never spam by definition to begin but in either case the quality of my posts had become better over time as i became more familiar with the environment in which i am posting in.

An option you can do if you would like to financially support the advanced membership via payment is to look for someone willing to buy a membership for you, just use a middleman via the trading post for neopoints since Abrosia will get you your first million neopoints extremely fast. Though i'm not sure if I should of posted this, I've seen boards created if my memory serves correctly.

I can see how you view other people responses as rage, but just imagine this: This is a community, even if it's online, it's still a community. When someone is talking alot, even if it's intelligent or what not, do you think it's not going to not annoy some people? I feel like if you say you're here to immerse yourself in a community, in my opinion a better way to discover the community you are immersing yourself in is also by observing and seeing what is frowned upon in this community, and what is not. To my knowledge, Abrosia, or Neocodex, is not going anywhere, so I understand why you're in a rush, but you need to understand the community's point of view on why it's frowned upon "post-rushing to 500". Just my two cents ^^.

Edited by Annabeth, 18 May 2011 - 11:34 PM.

[frostz]

An option you can do if you would like to financially support the advanced membership via payment is to look for someone willing to buy a membership for you, just use a middleman via the trading post for neopoints since Abrosia will get you your first million neopoints extremely fast. Though i'm not sure if I should of posted this, I've seen boards created if my memory serves correctly.

I can see how you view other people responses as rage, but just imagine this: This is a community, even if it's online, it's still a community. When someone is talking alot, even if it's intelligent or what not, do you think it's not going to not annoy some people? I feel like if you say you're here to immerse yourself in a community, in my opinion a better way to discover the community you are immersing yourself in is also by observing and seeing what is frowned upon in this community, and what is not. To my knowledge, Abrosia, or Neocodex, is not going anywhere, so I understand why you're in a rush, but you need to understand the community's point of view on why it's frowned upon "post-rushing to 500". Just my two cents ^^.

I have come to believe that the community frowns upon posting for the sake of getting full access to the programs (post rushing to 500) because they do not wish for a person to come here and suddenly disappear leaving 500 "spam" posts and never showing up ever again more so than the act of getting 100 posts over the course of 24 hours.

That is why I am here explaining myself.
It is also why i am taking more time before writing each post so that while i am on the road to post number 500, people do not have to read 500 non thought responses to each topic. Hopefully the majority of my new posts won't be so "hard on the eyes" because i am now following a new set of posting guidelines that i have extrapolated from all that was stated, and what i have seen.

I have stated before and i will state again, when i first came here i did come with that very intent of posting to 500 then leaving, but over the course of time i believe i have probably found a forum that would replace that which was lost to me when the world of warcraft off topic was taken down. This forum is fairly active and I have been searching for a new forum to lurk in ever since then, but there were none that i had found to be fitting until perhaps now. Even more so once i refamiliarize myself with neopets, and when i begin autobuying again, I will be able to participate in more than just the general discussion board.

Edited by frostz, 18 May 2011 - 11:50 PM.

[ShadowLink64]

I have come to believe that the community frowns upon posting for the sake of getting full access to the programs (post rushing to 500) because they do not wish for a person to come here and suddenly disappear leaving 500 "spam" posts and never showing up ever again more so than the act of getting 100 posts over the course of 24 hours.

That is why I am here explaining myself.
It is also why i am taking more time before writing each post so that while i am on the road to post number 500, people do not have to read 500 non thought responses to each topic. Hopefully the majority of my new posts won't be so "hard on the eyes" because i am now following a new set of posting guidelines that i have extrapolated from all that was stated, and what i have seen.

I have stated before and i will state again, when i first came here i did come with that very intent of posting to 500 then leaving, but over the course of time i believe i have probably found a forum that would replace that which was lost to me when the world of warcraft off topic was taken down. This forum is fairly active and I have been searching for a new forum to lurk in ever since then, but there were none that i had found to be fitting until perhaps now. Even more so once i refamiliarize myself with neopets, and when i begin autobuying again, I will be able to participate in more than just the general discussion board.

I think anyone that expects more than this is a real hard-ass, lol. Just keep posting and stuff.

[Ladida]

While I understand that frostz hasn't broken any rules, it doesn't deny the fact that his motive is entirely selfish. I know there are tons of leechers, who just want access to the AB, and are never heard of again. frostz will probably be one of them, considering he was here since '08, yet only began posting desperately now. If he had been an active member, he'd have reached probably 2000+ posts by now. What bothers me is the selfishness behind this entire incident. It's selfish, he has admitted it's selfish, and everyone else agrees it's selfish. frostz is only concerned about his own personal agenda, and is only here for access to the programs. I believe members who are so desperate for Abrosia should pay for it if they don't meet the requirements. Paying with a creditcard is not the only option. People here are happy to accept your NP and pay for Advanced for you.

Advanced membership in terms of post count should be earned, not simply by posting "relevant one liners" in as many threads as possible in 5 days, but by getting involved with the community, getting to know the people. A quick search for what a community is returns "A unified body of people". If Codex decides that this every man for himself concept is acceptable, then then there really is no community left. It's just a site where you get 500 posts as fast as possible, and then you're homefree and you never need to return except for updated programs. It was said that the programs aren't made available for everyone because it would reduce the profits made by all the users. I fail to see how this can be prevented, if we have users achieving their 500 posts within a period of a few days. Codex is not getting any money for Advanced, and users who are actively involved with the community are also suffering. Therefore, I do not agree that such behavior, nor do I believe it should be encouraged. The only way I can think of to resolve this is to only make the 500 post programs available to users who have posted at least a few times for the month (not applicable to paying members).

People may argue that Codex is putting up so many hurdles to jump over, but really, these are free programs. People dedicated to Codex wrote them. It's not fair or respectful to scream "GIMME GIMME NOWWW" and expect not to have to give anything in return (money or your time to get 500 posts). Then when they see the 500 post requirement, they get all pissed and decide to post as much as they can as fast as they can, and then point fingers at Codex saying "BUT YOU MADE IT THIS WAY, SO THERE!". Common sense applies to everything. Just because something is not stated in words in the rules doesn't mean you can run around doing it.

[ShadowLink64]

Maybe we need to actually enforce the longevity requirement of 1 month then, along with the 500 posts. That way it does serve the purpose of keeping people around instead of encouraging a "post-fest" that people don't seem to like. It personally doesn't both me that people are completely selfish. I made some of these programs so people can use them (rather selfishly). The only reason we're restricting it is because it's quite a powerful program and if it gets overloaded with users, the profits will kind of suck.

I guess these kind of discussions are what change things for the better.

[ToxicS]

Maybe we need to actually enforce the longevity requirement of 1 month then, along with the 500 posts. That way it does serve the purpose of keeping people around instead of encouraging a "post-fest" that people don't seem to like. It personally doesn't both me that people are completely selfish. I made some of these programs so people can use them (rather selfishly). The only reason we're restricting it is because it's quite a powerful program and if it gets overloaded with users, the profits will kind of suck.

I guess these kind of discussions are what change things for the better.

I think when people hit 500 posts they need to apply for advanced membership. I think that will solve things. If they aren't accepted they will need to get 200 more posts and apply again

[ShadowLink64]

I think when people hit 500 posts they need to apply for advanced membership. I think that will solve things.

I'm not a fan of making advanced membership into a popularity contest. There should be a well-documented way of getting what you want I think. That is, unless those problems with the past private member process can be fixed.

[ToxicS]

I'm not a fan of making advanced membership into a popularity contest. There should be a well-documented way of getting what you want I think. That is, unless those problems with the past private member process can be fixed.

I didn't mean it that way; I meant more of a mod/admin checking their posts to see if they're completely useless/spam.

[ShadowLink64]

I didn't mean it that way, I meant more of a mod/admin checking their posts to see if they're completely useless/spam.

That could work actually. Enforcing that 1 month longevity requirement would also help....

[ToxicS]

That could work actually. Enforcing that 1 month longevity requirement would also help....

I have a good idea, if the person is confident that their posts are high quality they can apply before the 1 month requirement, but if they're wrong, they'll get penalized further (having to get more posts before they can apply again)